Mystery Liberator nose 1960s

PS

Had anyone considered the ‘strange circular opening’ might be nothing more than a convient and safe way, but still maintaining the integrity of the frame, thus providing and easy way to get in and out of the front of the nose cone during training???

Just a thought…..

“Atcham Tower”

Thanks – So now we know that 11 R&SC (Repair and Salvage Centre ) was based in Northern Ireland @ Antrim

This starts to make some sort of sence.. My theory is..

The aircraft was re-cat E on 13th April 1942 (after earlier accident) and broken up on site by 11 R&SC at RAF Nutts Corner

Now, it is entirely possible that the un-damaged nose cone was sent to Tollerton A/c Services Ltd for use for repairs of other aircraft (it was afterall responsible for Lib repairs)… But the whole aircraft was NEVER ‘broken up or scrapped at RAF Tollerton’ – So this can’t be used as evidence for it being
AM910

It could equally be AM912

“16 May 1941, nosewheel collapsed on landing at RAF Boscombe Down while attached to the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment.
11 December 1941, not repaired and SOC . “

or any other Salvaged Mk 1 Liberator

The Air-Britain Support Units book gives No 11 Repair and Salvage Unit as being formed at Henlow in 1940 for British Air Forces in France; disbanded 24.7.40. Reformed as No 11 Repair and Salvage Centre at Mallusk, Co Antrim. Redes No 226 MU 1.7.42. According to the same book, Tollerton A/c Services Ltd (Field Group) were responsible for the Lib and other bomber types. Presumably they administered 11 R&SC at that time. So, good point Paul, it doesn’t mean that it was actually broken up at Tollerton. If it really is AM910, how did it get to Ingham and was it being used as a procedures trainer by an airfield that didn’t operate Libs?! Nor did it open till April 42 for Polish Wellingtons. The plot thickens!

I should have added to my last post that I have the movment card for AM910 which states……13.4.42 by No.11 R&SC Tollerton A/C Co.

Firstly , thanks Peter, re-reading your message has left mew more questions than answers

Both Air Britain Registers and the Wikipedia reference (I know the latter is not infallible!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberator_B_Mk_I

have

“March 1942, transferred out of 120 Sq.
13 April 1942, crashed on landing: Nutts Corner. “

So I assume that from the movement card, the accident on 6 November 1941 was not terminal and she was fixed only to have another crash landing on 12th April ??? Or has the history of the Lib been confused and she sat around RAF Nutts Corner for 6th months while it was decided what to do with her? only to be ‘paper’ transferred out off 120 Sqn in March 1942 and then actually ‘cut up on 13th April 1942) which is the date she was re-cat as CAT 5 and cut up by No.11 R&SC Tollerton A/C Co. on this date

The important bit to realise is that “No.11 R&SC Tollerton A/C Co.” does not imply she went to actually went to RAF Tollerton, rather it was a crew from “Tollerton Aircraft Services ” (Tollerton A/C Co) (later Field Services Aviation) that did the reclaimation and salvage… probably on site in Nutts Corner.

BTW does anyone know what the R&SC in No.11 R&SC is ?

Thanks

Paul

I should have added to my last post that I have the movment card for AM910 which states……13.4.42 by No.11 R&SC Tollerton A/C Co.

M/120 was declared CAT. E, being struck off charge she was reduced to spares and produce.

Peter thanks – This still does not ‘square’ with being “scrapped at Tollerton” (which I doubt). The only ‘evidence’ that it was AM910 was the location of it being broken up.. Which now looks in doubt!

AM910 was the first LB.30B to be delivered to the UK arriving on 7 April 1941 and so became the trial installation machine for the definitive Coastal Command Liberator I, being fitted with ASV and four 20mm cannon.

The aircraft arrived at RAF Nutts Corner to go on charge with No.120 Squadron RAF Coastal Command on 5 September 1941.

On 25 September 1941 AM910 M/120 (F/O. Wightman) along with AM925 X/120 (F/O. Bannister) carried out the Squadrons first convoy sortie (SC44). M/120 eventually carried out twelve Ops with 120 Squadron.

On 6 November 1941 M/120 carried out an Anti-submarine sweep on the MV Nottingham and on retuning to base the aircraft crash landed causing damage to the undercarriage.

M/120 was declared CAT. E, being struck off charge she was reduced to spares and produce.

I remember seeing the Hali too. Strange single fin. Nice to reminisce even if it doesn’t help to identify the Lib nose! Since its u/c collapsed on landing in N Ireland, I wonder how it got to Tollerton? By sea and road transport would have been very uneconomical, especially at that stage of the war.

Can someone explain how an aircraft that crashed on landing at RAF Nutts Corner (Northen Ireland) in 13th April 1942 was scrapped in the same month and year at Tollerton (Nottingham).

Unless of course it was not a bad landing.. but then why write it off? and why move an aircraft from Northern Ireland to the UK for scrapping in war time?…

I am not saying the separate nose could have been moved across the Irish Sea for re-use etc…

BTW the date 13th April 1942 and location is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberator_B_Mk_I

and the same date and location is in Air Britain

Don’t forget Halifax PN323 that was scrapped apart from the cockpit in the early sixties.:eek:
We all have our own horrorstories don’t you think?
😀 😀

Cees

Is that an ejection seat sitting on the wing?

Mark 12……. so cruel. 😮

AtchamT,

I see that I also was a contributor to this book…thirty years ago!

Mark

The mentioned page.

Mark12

David Collins,

Do not look at the Sea Hornet on the same page, circa 1963.

Mark

….. easily done, as I do not own a copy!

😀 😀

Oh yes, the lovely Sea Hornet! Preservation was not a priority in those days and enthusiasts were mostly penniless. A Blackpool scrap dealer offered me a P-38 cockpit pod for £15 but I had no suitable transport nor anywhere to store it. Apart from that, 15 quid was quite a sum in those days. Back to the Lib – Googling Liberator AM910, I see that certain web sources give it as fact that it ended up in a Lincolnshire wood. Hmm. I wonder what their sources are or is it just a distortion of theory into fact?

You have a good memory! I wrote that piece for Bruce Robertson’s Epics of Aviation Archaeology but had forgotten all about it. It has been sitting on one of my shelves all the time! I quoted Jim Oughton’s comments in the book: “he believes that it may have been from AM910 which was scrapped at Tollerton in April 1942 after service at Boscombe Down for the trials installation of four 20mm cannon and ASV radar.”

David Collins,

Do not look at the Sea Hornet on the same page, circa 1963.

Mark

You have a good memory! I wrote that piece for Bruce Robertson’s Epics of Aviation Archaeology but had forgotten all about it. It has been sitting on one of my shelves all the time! I quoted Jim Oughton’s comments in the book: “he believes that it may have been from AM910 which was scrapped at Tollerton in April 1942 after service at Boscombe Down for the trials installation of four 20mm cannon and ASV radar.”

Tried to google “Liberator Ingham Tollerton” and found this Google Earth link with many RAF stations:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/placemarks/823789-RAFStations.kmz

Is this the same nose as also to be found in one of Bruce Robertsons
Aviation Archeology books?
What happened to this relic.

Cheers

Cees

Tried to google “Liberator Ingham Tollerton” and found this Google Earth link with many RAF stations:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/placemarks/823789-RAFStations.kmz