What are Warbird safety height limits these days?

During the war there were stories of planes suddenly dropping from these heights,with pilots falling unconscious, due to they supposed oxygen running out, and or freezing and fracturing of essential pipes. Sometimes pilots managed to wake up with just a few thousand feet spare, but sadly apparently many didn’t.

Any one know any more?

Thats it – in a nutshell, oxygen starvation is the biggest risk. Of course, so long as the oxygen system works properly inadverdant flight in to terrain (ie hitting the ground) is less of a risk due to the altitude. Checking reality, here in the UK, Permit catergory aircraft (ex military aircraft such as Spitfires and Mustangs etc) are only cleared for daylight VFR flight so gaining altitude without breaking the rules and getting down again may cause problems, oxygen or not!

It can be different in the USA of course, as most Mustangs are, for example, registered in the ‘Limited’ category which permits flight over 100% cloud cover (no visual contact with the ground). This can present its own risks – I recall three or four years ago two unfortunate people had to bale out of a P-51 named ‘Glamorous Glen’ after the engine stopped during a period when they were transiting over cloud which was over a forested area (no possibility of a forced landing).

What are warbird safety height limits these days?

See I knew somebody would have some stories to tell, any more I wonder?

But, in all seriousness, what are the dangers involved today with these brilliantly restored machines, if they were allowed to fly that high?Is there an increased fire risk at height with oxygen? Apart from the time factor, does the risk increase dramatically say from 25,000ft up to over 40,000ft?

During the war there were stories of planes suddenly dropping from these heights,with pilots falling unconscious, due to they supposed oxygen running out, and or freezing and fracturing of essential pipes. Sometimes pilots managed to wake up with just a few thousand feet spare, but sadly apparently many didn’t.

Any one know any more?

Particularly does anyone know when oxygen was last used at altitude in prop driven fighters.

A couple of years ago in the US. Two P-51’s with portable oxygen equipment went up to an altitude at which contrails form and the event was filmed. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFYzHfjTGtk

It was just done for the amusement of it really but the footage is pretty impressive.

I seem to remember from the late Paul Coggan’s book Mustang Survivors a note that Tony Buechler used to take the 51 up to 25000 ft regularly.

T J

What are Warbird safety height limits these days?

Thanks guys for your input, would anybody else like to add to the knowledge?Anytime? Particularly does anyone know when oxygen was last used at altitude in prop driven fighters, especially over the Uk?
Thanks again, FH.

Someone will probably be able to provide a better and more accurate answer, but I think most piston powered Warbirds, such as a Mustang or Spitfire for example, would be limited to below 10000 ft because for one, they no longer carry oxygen, and (in the U.K especially) because of the various airspace restrictions that are in place. This means they will have a maximum height that they can fly before they penetrate it, such as the London TMA, which I think is 2500 ft around most of London and beyond.

As for transiting, from articles I’ve read and the Warbirds I’ve seen fly overhead, this mostly appears to be done around the 2000 – 2500 ft mark, but again, I guess it depends on the airspace (& also the cloud base) that they are flying in.

I do recall reading in an article about the first restoration of Spitfire PV202 which told how Pete Kynsey took it up to around 13000 ft off the coast of Selsey (clear of any restricted airspace) for some spin tests.

I wonder if he used a temporary oxygen system during this flight?

Cheers

Paul

What are Warbird safety height limits these days? I have seen inside Spitfire cockpits that have printed notices – max 12000ft. This I assume is for two reasons, it’s just below the oxygen assisted level and for insurance purposes, which is understandable. But are there any warbirds that are permitted to use oxygen now and fly heights of 20,000, 30,000 or higher? What are the risks today compared to the war years? What are the current regulations?
If this is not allowed today, when I wonder was the last high level warbird flight in the UK, or worldwide? Anyone know?
Which leads me onto today Sunday 10th June, for joy of joys it was great to see the memorial Hurricane and Spitfire for 3 seconds as they flew north at, it looked like about 2500 ft, off to the Cosford show. Now in 3 seconds you can’t get focused into plane id numbers, but those merlins were purring away nicely. Coming from the south west did they stop off at Staverton airport to refuel before the show?
Next time please guys can you give me a little bit more warning. how about publishing a route plan and time schedule, so I can be ready at the top of the hill!I digress, anyway they seemed very low, and I remembered one Spitfire pilot, I think it was Sq L Paul Day, once saying that a safe operating height was around 4,500 ft min. This would give the pilot sufficient time to plan a forced landing should a sudden emergency arise, within a 360 degree area, as opposed to say 90 degrees at 2500 ft.
Would any warbird pilots out there like to enlighten me please?

regarding high flying warbirds. Most jets currently on the airshow scene will transit at high altitude. G-CVIX when travelling to and from europe was cleared to high altitude regularly, a) to get her out of the way of commercial traffic and b) it significantly improved her endurance.