Guy Gibsons wings for sale

Guy Gibsons Wings

First of all many thanks to Stuart Gowans for helping out while I registered on the forum. Some of you will already know me and of my (ongoing!) project to build a Spitfire Cockpit section…but that’s another story!

I recently purchased the above mentioned item at an auction of militaria. I am not a dealer but like most on this forum have an interest in aviation, particularly WW2 era.

These wings and other items came from the estate of a local collector who had passed on. Everything in his collection was genuine. I believe that there is most probably a story behind how this chap acquired the item and I am currently investigating that avenue.

I have already contacted the RAF museum at Hendon and will be taking the wings over for them to view. I have also offered the wings to Hendon to include in any display, if they feel this is appropriate.

What I would like to ask anyone on this forum is for help in contacting any family members of Barnes Wallis. If anyone can help it would be much appreciated.

In summary, I personaly believe that there is more to this and at this stage I see no reason to suspect that the wings are not genuine or the story attached to them.

PS. There are no black dog hairs on the item…I have checked!!

If Gibson gave a set of wings to Barnes Wallis then I would think they MUST have come via the B-W family along the way? He has a surviving son and I imagine finding him might be easy. Why not just ask if he remembers? As JDK said, it doesnt prove anything though!

I’m sure that in the case of the arm band, there will be a record of British competitors in the 36? games, but to prove this particular arm band was the actual one presented by AH, (given that there were a few about at the time), will be difficult; another question would be, “why didn’t it stay in the family” (I believe there are relatives).

Yes , actual proof will be very hard to come by…

If it were easy, the auction house would have done it. They’re good at easy. :rolleyes:

A friend of mine has a swastika arm band given to a competitor of the Munich games ,the old boy has now gone but, was presented with it personally by Adolph Hitler; my friend is now in his mid 70’s and there is a real danger that the paper trail on this one will be lost , and that it will become just another Nazi arm band that was “personally presented ” by AH.

A sworn statement, witnessed, with any supporting documentation (passport with the date stamps, programme with personal notes, tickets etc.) go a long way to validating such things, and will add financial value due to the historical provenance. Despite what some think, much historical paperwork relies on circumstantial evidence.

HTH

Yes , actual proof will be very hard to come by, but as someone who pm’d me said, it was not unusual (steady tom) for a pilot to have anything up to 5 sets of wings, so the idea that he lived and died in one set may be right, but also he would have had others (not just a set on dress uniform).

A friend of mine has a swastika arm band given to a competitor of the Munich games ,the old boy has now gone but, was presented with it personally by Adolph Hitler; my friend is now in his mid 70’s and there is a real danger that the paper trail on this one will be lost , and that it will become just another Nazi arm band that was “personally presented ” by AH.

Not my area, but…

Just been contacted by the purchaser of “Guy Gibsons” wings, he would very much appreciate any help in authenticating them, (or any ideas as to how that might be achieved)

As they don’t currently have a good enough provenance, that would be difficult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance

The new owner needs to:

Prove, from good sources that a set of wings were given by Gibson to Wallis (can anyone help here?)

That the wings were identifiable in some way

That these wings are identifiable the same (unique) way

Or find a paper trail showing that ‘a’ gave them to ‘b’ who sold them to ‘c’ and so forth. That doesn’t prove anything, btw, it just makes it more likely.

Oh, and it’s really easy to make it all up if you are unscrupulous – and don’t mind facing criminal proceedings if found out.

HTH

The price paid has been reported publily on several newspaper websites already if you put Guy Gibson into Google News, I spotted it the other day when looking for the Dambusters film remake news.

As a matter of interest, how much did he pay?

exmpa

I’m not sure he would want me to say , but my intended bid of £100- wouldn’t have bought them!

Just been contacted by the purchaser of “Guy Gibsons” wings

As a matter of interest, how much did he pay?

exmpa

Didn’t the Scampton operations room ‘Sector Clock’ come up on ebay recently?

‘Thin but robust’.

A bit too thin for me. 🙂

Mark

Yes, it did! And the Biggin Hill “scramble” bell. As for the clock…certainly thin and not very robust. Nobody has been able to explain why a bomber station ops room would have had a fighter station colour-change sector clock which was designed to be used in conjunction with FC plotting maps.:confused:

*** Most aircrew were very superstitious, & I feel would be very reluctant to ‘strip’ their ‘well worn wings’ off of their battledress

1) So as a gesture of thanks to Barnes Wallis it would be immediately perceived as being enormous and heartfelt.

2) His luck did run out

My own feeling is that these are unlikely to be a geniune ‘worn by Gibson on the raid, taken off, given to Barnes Wallis’ item. But I would also suggest that at this distance we are very unlikely to be able ever to know the truth.

Moggy

Just been contacted by the purchaser of “Guy Gibsons” wings, he would very much appreciate any help in authenticating them, (or any ideas as to how that might be achieved); I gather he has had a few problems registering on this forum, but hopefully this will be sorted out.

Didn’t the Scampton operations room ‘Sector Clock’ come up on ebay recently?

‘Thin but robust’.

A bit too thin for me. 🙂

Mark

An interesting general observation.

However the original post does read

No mention of posthumously

Moggy

*** Most aircrew were very superstitious, & I feel would be very reluctant to ‘strip’ their ‘well worn wings’ off of their battledress in fear of their ‘luck running out’ & getting the ‘big chop’, therefore it seems to me that Gibson would not have been any different in that respect. Could it be that they were a ‘spare set’, or he bought them for the specially for the occasion?

Dustyone

Re : Gibsons Wings

It is a shame that there doesn’t seem to be any definate proof of the provenance of these wings,however as I live quite local to the auctioneers I’m going to try and get to the auction.
I might have a bid on them depending how the bidding is going at the time

Steve

Guy Gibson was almost certainly wearing his battledress uniform, with his wings sew on at the time he was killed, they would have been the ones most used by him, therefore would have been burned in the resulting crash in Holland

An interesting general observation.

However the original post does read

..presented to Barnes Wallis the inventor of the bouncing bomb after the dams raid..

No mention of posthumously

Moggy

Gibsons wings

Guy Gibson was almost certainly wearing his battledress uniform, with his wings sew on at the time he was killed, they would have been the ones most used by him, therefore would have been burned in the resulting crash in Holland (?), any other wings he would have had would have been on his ‘best blues’ uniform for formal dress occasions, & seldom used on operations

Dustyone

Right then… I own three sets of wings (RCAF/CAF… 2 of which have never been worn) and have owned 2 black Labradors which shed profusely in some general proximity of said wings…. so, whose wings should I be selling this week?? :rolleyes:

Cheers… (oh, who’s round was it??)

JJ

Since Barnes Wallis’ son is still around it would be interesting to ask him. If they were give to BW then the family may know, and may be able to explain how/why the family dont have them now! Just a thought. Andy. Pssssst…wanna buy the Red Barons pilots wings, anyone? I have several sets in stock.:diablo:

Right then… I own three sets of wings (RCAF/CAF… 2 of which have never been worn) and have owned 2 black Labradors which shed profusely in some general proximity of said wings…. so, whose wings should I be selling this week?? :rolleyes:

Cheers… (oh, who’s round was it??)

JJ

The black labrador dog hairs on the wings do it for me……:D