All,
I am just finishing up reading the Osprey Publishing book in the Combat Aircraft series entitled Junkers Ju-87 Stukageschwader of North Africa and the Mediterranean (long title I know), and just before I began this one, I finished up the companion volume entitled Junkers Ju-87 Stukageschwader 1937-41, both books by John Weal. I must say, I’ve always found the Stuka to be a fascinating airplane, and both of these books were excellent reads.
Anyway enough of the babbling…..I started this thread hoping to find someone who could help teach me the organization of the Luftwaffe during WWII.
First of all is the unit designators. For example: 1./StG 3
From what I understand this means the first Gruppe or the 3rd Stukageschwader. Now, how far off am I? Also, if you see the following: Stab StG 3…..what does that mean?
What do all the terms mean?
I’ve seen the following terms, and although I have an idea of what they mean, I’d like some clarification. I know I can probably find this in a google search if I look hard enough, but I’d prefer to discuss it with other human beings.
As for the terms, here they are: Ketten, Stukageschwader (namely the latter part of that word), Stabskette, Gruppe, Staffel. Are there others I’m missing?
Thanks for any and all help.
P.S. After I get clarificaton on these terms, if anyone would care to have a discussion on the Ju-87 itself I’d enjoy that. After reading these too books I’ve learned a great deal more about the Stuka, and I find it even more interesting.
By: PhantomII - 22nd March 2007 at 22:19
Many thanks!
By: markpa - 22nd March 2007 at 15:56
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/index.htm
12 o’ clock high thats’ it
By: PhantomII - 22nd March 2007 at 15:15
Can you provide a URL?
By: dakota2 - 22nd March 2007 at 09:42
Ju 87 Stuka
😎
For anything about Stuka’s try the Web Site “Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum” -12 O’Clock Hugh.
dakota2
By: PhantomII - 22nd March 2007 at 06:10
Yes I’m aware of that fact. I believe I’d heard that before, but the two Osprey books I just read on the Stuka made it clear on that subject.
They were truly fascinating reads.
I’m hoping another will come out detailing the Eastern Front. I’d like more information on Ju-87G operations as well as more stuff about the usual dive-bomber variants namely the Berta and Dora.
I’m wondering…until recently I wasn’t aware that the D model came in versions fitted with the standard forward-firing armament of two MG17 machine guns, and then a later D variant that was fitted with a pair of MG151/20 20-mm cannons.
Does anyone happen to know how many rounds per gun the MG17’s as fitted in the Stuka had available and how many the 20-mm’s on the D-5 variant carried?
By: James D - 21st March 2007 at 11:12
Maybe you know this already, but “Stuka” was not only used to describe the Ju87 originally. I have seen it applied to the Ju88 also. Its a shortened version of the phrase STUrzKAmpfbomber (dive attack bomber).
By: PhantomII - 21st March 2007 at 00:54
Wow…not a minute after I started looking…I did a quick google search and found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RLM_paint_designations
That never happens!
Sorry for the apparent waste of a post.
If anyone would like to discuss the Stuka though I’m all for that. It’s a plane that just a fascinates me like few others.
By: PhantomII - 21st March 2007 at 00:52
I’ll look into the links. Thanks a lot.
I will probably have to ask on the forum because that first link looks confusing for a guy who only does modelling every now and again.
By: CSheppardholedi - 20th March 2007 at 22:22
Here is a link to a great modeling site. If the info you are after isn’t there, you can join their forum and ask.
someone else’s Stuka project
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2002/04/stuff_eng_debie_stuka.htm
By: PhantomII - 20th March 2007 at 22:09
I found a 1:48 scale model of a Ju-87D-5 in the hobby store today after work (which is awesome because it was a 1:48 Ju-87D that I was looking for just hoping they might at least have a Stuka).
The paint list is rather basic though. It is as follows:
Black Green
Dark Green
Light Blue
Dark Gray
Yellow
Green
Steel
Blue
Brown
Skin Color
White
Flat Black
Most of those don’t give me trouble as I already have them. The Black Green & Dark Green and Dark Gray are my problems. I’m wondering….is there a specific German color (i.e. RLM something or another?) that I can use for these colors to be most accurate?
Any help in the matter is greatly appreciated.
By: CSheppardholedi - 16th March 2007 at 15:20
Yes, Rudel’s account is mostly Eastern front with a good deal of it involving hunting tanks, getting shot down several times, even “fishing” with a Stuka. I believe it is about the best Eastern front aviation book I have come across.
By: PhantomII - 16th March 2007 at 14:22
Superb link, and one that really made it very easy to understand how the Luftwaffe did things.
With my book complete, I must say that despite the fact they were fighting for a horrible cause (that of the 3rd Reich), I have a new level of respect for Stuka crews and the ground crews that supported them.
The Stuka may have been vulnerable against enemy fighters (then again, what attack aircraft or bomber of the period wasn’t), but their crews were truly very skilled at what they did. I was never aware of the true extent of the Stuka’s involvement in the MTO, but that book gave a very good account of it.
I’m hoping for a third book in the series detailing Stuka operations on the Eastern Front, as that seems to be the only Front that hasn’t really been covered thus far. I suppose the book by Rudel might give a good account of that as I believe he spent most of his time fighting the Russians.
Anyone else have any remarks?
By: CSheppardholedi - 15th March 2007 at 02:26
Follow this link-Wikapedia, it has a bunch of good definitions as well as an organisational flow chart on how their air groups were set up. Your next book MUST be “Stuka Pilot” By Hans Rudel. It is simi-autobiographical and goes through most of the war.
By: Creaking Door - 15th March 2007 at 01:05
Not sure Geschwader, Gruppe or Staffel have a direct RAF equivalent but Stab translates to ‘staff’ and Kette to ‘flight’ (or I suppose a ‘vic’ of three aircraft in RAF terms).
So Stabskette is a flight of aircraft crewed by the senior officers of the unit.
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March 15, 2007 at 12:47 am