Flying boats on grass??

I suspect that training didn’t extend to landing a flying boat on grass, where the spirit of self and crew preservation might have kicked in shortly after the elation of having made it safely down, and before turning the engines and systems off!

My surpise at the crew leaving with engines running came from my training as a pilot, where I’d be expected to have not just the Mags off before exiting but also the fuel and the master switch off; all to prevent a fire.

I strongly suspect they exited rapidly in case it caught fire, and only when they were sure that wasn’t going to happen did one man re-enter and shut down the engines.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that was the version I was told, fire was their main concern.
They went back in to retrieve belongings and obviously were so relieved they started fooling around, and I believe it was my father who biffed the toilet out…He also kept his strap on morse key which we recently gave to a museum.

There are a couple of accounts of the episode that I have read, one in Ivan Southall’s book They Shall Not Pass Unseen, and the other in Gordon Singleton’s memoirs Singleton’s War.

Gordon said: “Now for the landing, and there is no textbook to give guidance. We were all well secured and cushioned for a rough landing. I made a very shallow approach with full flaps, speed just above stalling. At 20.40 hours she touched down gently, ran for a hundred yards or so on the keel and settled gently on the port float…..George Viner reported with a chuckle that not one of the eggs in the galley had been broken”

I’m pretty sure that is how it was described by one of the crew somewhere Bager, possibly in the other thread.

I think that impression is down to editing because after the engines stop you see a crewman opening the top hatch then there’s a cut, whereas the earlier footage seems to continue on from that and then abruptly cuts back to just after the crash-landing with the engines running down. Why insert that part of the film reel there is a mystery.

Actually, if you look at the film again, in the scene where the majority of the crew slide/run down the wing, you see the stbd props still spinning fast.

Then comes the scene where all props are still running, but you can see aircrew walking around the aircraft.

Later, the spinning props finally stop.

Only then do we see the scene where the props are stopped and someone climbs out of the top hatch.

I strongly suspect they exited rapidly in case it caught fire, and only when they were sure that wasn’t going to happen did one man re-enter and shut down the engines.

so longs as no one is hurt , landing gear in water is a whole lot funnier !!

http://youtu.be/w6e3n1RYvsI

I’m surprised the crew left the aircraft without someone switching the mags off to stop the engines.

I think that impression is down to editing because after the engines stop you see a crewman opening the top hatch then there’s a cut, whereas the earlier footage seems to continue on from that and then abruptly cuts back to just after the crash-landing with the engines running down. Why insert that part of the film reel there is a mystery.

“Still just a little too late on the round out, Hoskins”

Mark

Well, – for a given value of ‘large’, and of ‘seaplane’ – While the Cat is indeed originally a pure flying boat and indeed very large for a twin-engine type, and I take the correction to my earlier remark – however referring to four-engine types similar to, and including the Sunderland, is a different order of magnitude or hull size if you like.

Even larger twin engined flying boat was the Martin Mariner, which seemed to have followed the same course, ie started out as a straight waterborne type and became an amphibian with retractable tricycle undercarriage.
The following Marlin could only take-off and land from water, I can’t help thinking this design had a huge influence on the magnificant PS-1 flying boat US-1 amphibian.

I am surprised no ones linked the wonderful thread and photos from WIX that shows the RAF Museum’s Supermarine Stranier flying boat taking off from a runway after repair?

No need, it has its own thread here courtesy of JDK, http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98231&highlight=stranraer, and includes input from the pilots daughter, & a bit more on the late Stranraers here, http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105772&highlight=stranraer

Thank you James for the info & links about E-EMU … fascinating stuff.

And so does the Sunderland landing at Angle, http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98040, the RAAF sourced footage was mentioned but not found until this thread it seems, thank you Caroline!:)

Large seaplanes could indeed land on hard surfaces.

Well, – for a given value of ‘large’, and of ‘seaplane’ – While the Cat is indeed originally a pure flying boat and indeed very large for a twin-engine type, and I take the correction to my earlier remark – however referring to four-engine types similar to, and including the Sunderland, is a different order of magnitude or hull size if you like. All credit to the adaptability of the Albatross, but it was always an amphibian and stressed in design to different standards to a large flying boat.

The largest flying boat relevant I’d suggest was the Shin Meiwa, a four engine type with a built in beaching gear – but not an amphibian in the first model, and then later developed into a full amphibian.

Regards,

Thank you James for the info & links about E-EMU … fascinating stuff.

And thank you also Caroline for the link to the movie on youtube. I’ve just spent about 20 mins trolling through a bunch of wonderful related vids on youtube!

Watching those large flying boats land it strikes me there must be a sudden pull of drag as soon as the hull touches. Can anyone comment about landing technique … pull back on the stick to avoid “diving” so to speak, or was there perhaps a “ground effect” rather like what occurs with a land plane in those last couple of metres?

Thanks all, cheers Don

I am surprised no ones linked the wonderful thread and photos from WIX that shows the RAF Museum’s Supermarine Stranier flying boat taking off from a runway after repair?

regards

Mark Pilkington

Large seaplanes could indeed land on hard surfaces.
The USAF had Grumman Albatrosses modified with keel and float-mounted skids for use on ice.
They bought 154 conversion kits called it the triphibian. The system worked very well. The RCAF also used the kits.

Since the skis/skids weren’t that big they just gave the aircraft stability on ice and the keel was strong enough to support the weight of the aircraft on ice/snow.

And here’s a photo of a PBY on the ice I found on WIX, taken at Attu in 1943. The post reports that the plane successfuly flew off the icecap.
Other WIX posts in that 2004 thread say PBYs were landed on the Greenland icecap during the wartime rescue of a B-17 crew and “in 1925 Dornier Wal flying boats were landed on ice in the rescue of Amundsen and Ellsworth after their first attempt to fly to the North Pole failed.”

Middle block at the bottom tells of a PBY being slid onto ice to rescue a B-17 crew

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dYNcex4AhPoC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=pby+catalina++lands+on+ice&source=bl&ots=0vQv-jRms0&sig=3okpdKjNDs3ts0-WCy0flrr1-Og&hl=en&ei=1rioTbz8LcaFhQek05TWCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Welcome and thank you for the link.
Looking at the hole in the hull, an airfield landing rather than water was a good decision. However, I’m surprised the crew left the aircraft without someone switching the mags off to stop the engines.

That’s an incredible piece of footage. Thanks for posting, you must be very proud!

Have created an album with some excellent photos of Sunderland after landing.

My Father Ron Church was the wireless operator on the Sunderland that crash landed in Angle in 1943. I purchased the film clip and have put it on YouTube. Link below.
My family recently made contact with the pilot, Gordon Singleton, who is still alive and living in the UK.
This is my first visit to the forum, so hope I am linking this properly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZfVEoZmt-c&feature=feedlik

In the beginning…

Fairey IIID, January 1926:
“. We had successfully carried out some trial landings on the deck to prove that landing and taking a float plane off the deck was possible in an emergency, but as a result, the floats were leaking badly owing to loosened rivets. We had no means of repairing them on board, so that after being hoisted into the water I had to waste no time before taking off otherwise the weight of the water in the floats plus “Cam’s” 18 stone was too much for the Napier Lion engine.” Lt (R.M.) AB Woodhall