Axis use of Spitfires during BoB.

Just a blustering show pony?

Hermann Goering

He was obviously an influential and charismatic figure to have been in the postion he attained, as are most politicians and leaders. :rolleyes:

I think he should best be remembered for the following haunting statement :

“Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

– Hermann Goering, April 18, 1946 (Nuremburg)

This thread has gone way off topic :rolleyes:

Regards all…

Just a blustering show pony, and as bent as they come,

Don’t much like him neither, but don’t forget that he was an ace. So at some stage he must have exhibited a fair amount of courage in battle…

Agree with you there.We can dance up and down the history trail as much as possible but in the end it hasn,t changed the outcome.I think fighter production grew due to the work being contracted out to a more numerous and spread out industrial force Have one big factory and the allies bomb the crap out of it.Have many small ones and the allies will be running all up and down Europe trying to knock it over.

Goering the great hairy fat BENT Vaudeville act!

Nah sorry read heap’s about this dude! :rolleyes:

I would not have bothered to Pisss on em if he was on fire :p

Just a blustering show pony, and as bent as they come,
Lived on day’s of yor 😉 .

Yes the Luft boy’s made him look good, but just a case of the right fag in the right place, at the time. :p

The smarter dude’s just topped them self’s :rolleyes: , could not work with THAT buffoon, or the greatest actor of the 20th Century

A DOLF! 🙂

And matter of fact that hairy fat fag Hermie did too in the end! 😎

A right dickhe@d till the end!!!!!!!!!!!! :dev2:

Yep the Kraut’s Luft boy’s sure did come out of the starter’s gate, hard and fast, frightened the cr@p out the whole of Europe, but it ran out of puff in the end, F/all good pilot’s left, plenty of aircraft still.

Bombing did nothing really to slow fighter production, check the figure’s

BUT no juice to fly em hey! 😀 .

BUT what the hell happened with the Aircraft Production rate’s :confused: , Peace time rate’s till it was nearly all over!

DOH, for all the German smart’s, they can be preety dumb silly buggger’s :p .

Much the same as their cousin’s across the chunnel on their little Island.

Must come from being related :rolleyes: .

A now in his 90’s WW2 Navy mate of mine.
(Dave Geddes warship’s, Canberra, Australia, Various Destroyer’s, did the Tobruk taxi service at one point, almost the Syd but missed that last ride luckly, because he was sick in a Perth Navy hospital.

He say’s he still misse’s some of the lad’s from Sydney, but want’s it just left alone.

Dave’s BIG statement about WW2, NOTHING but complete stuff up’s on ALL side’s.

The winner’s just made a few less.

Ciao for now!

CARRRRNNN THE AUSSIE’S :dev2:

LET”S stick it right up em all 5 nil hopefully!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever. No offence meant. 🙂

I didn’t either, it was written in haste as I logged off at work. Didn’t come across well.

How bout the Hurra that went Awol and ended up in a berlin museum!!

Rob?
Ian, have I missed something?

Whatever. No offence meant. 🙂

My retort to EN 830 ( nothing personal Rob)

Rob?
Ian, have I missed something?

Couldn’t have put it better myself JDK: I think you have given a very concise and fair appraisal.
My retort to EN 830 ( nothing personal Rob) was principally against being unfairly ascribed a simplistic and, to many people offensive, opinion that I just do not hold.

Please remember ,beyond modern cartoon history: The “fat one” ,from the ruins of the Armistice , was a key player in building up one of the finest fighting Air Arms the world had then yet seen.

Rather than digging into typos, I’d like to say that’s an excellent point. But it was a fine airforce for tactical and specifically Blitzkrieg use. Had Germany managed to subdue Europe and Russia by 1942/3 as was the plan, it would have been regarded as the best application of airpower ever. On the other hand, they didn’t; they failed to plan for further wartime development (all the ‘Luft ’46’ stuff ignores the fact that ‘Luft 39-43’ was stagnant) and failed to manage a single strategic offensive. It’s notable that after the Ju52 their effective airlift capabilities were less than adequate, and maritime reconnaissance and attack was undertaken by adopted types. So yes, best in the world in one sphere. Not flexible enough, and inadequate ‘futureproofing’ though.

How much the development of Blizkrieg was down to Goering himself, I don’t know. As he was on the losing side his failures are well highlighted; however I don’t think his wartime successes really counterbalance that. Anyone?

Your admiration for the “fat” one is admiral, however he was also instrumental in destroying that same airforce, obviously in conjunction with the various allied airforces as well.

Your deduction as to my opinion of the man is about as accurate as your use of language in this instance.

Please remember ,beyond modern cartoon history: The “fat one” ,from the ruins of the Armistice , was a key player in building up one of the finest fighting Air Arms the world had then yet seen.

That doesn’t alter the fact that he didn’t like people disagreeing with his ideas.

Please remember ,beyond modern cartoon history: The “fat one” ,from the ruins of the Armistice , was a key player in building up one of the finest fighting Air Arms the world had then yet seen.

Your admiration for the “fat” one is admiral, however he was also instrumental in destroying that same airforce, obviously in conjunction with the various allied airforces as well.

Please remember ,beyond modern cartoon history: The “fat one” ,from the ruins of the Armistice , was a key player in building up one of the finest fighting Air Arms the world had then yet seen.

[QUOTE=25deg south]

I recall in the classic file “Battle of Britain” Herr Goering asked the local Fighter commander if there was anything he needed, and he replied “yes, a squadron of Spitfires!” Goerring was not pleased! Don’t know, historicaly, if that actually happened.
QUOTE]
This comment is popularly attributed to Adolf Galland.
Galland apparently claimed later that what he mean’t was to be allowed to use his fighters like ” a staffel of Spitfires”, i.e. to get them away from close (and limiting ) escort to the Bombers.

However he meant it I admire his nerve. That was not the sort of remark the fat one appreciated

Hi xtangomike

That “Mk XI” is a P.R. XI – with the deep nose oil cooler.

I imagine it would have given the german fighter schools and fledgling pilots quite a headache.
The P.R XI was quite a bit faster (422mph) and with a higher ceiling (44,000ft) and vastly greater range (1200+miles!) than your standard combat spit !

The P.R XI was probably the ultimate Merlin powered Spitfire…

🙂

Found these in amongst my books.
A captured Mk XI apparently operated by Sonderstaffel Wanderzirkis to demonstrate to German fighter schools.
Also a Stirling (N3705) with oddly repaired nose. It was on a mine laying run 16th Aug.1942. Landed in Holland waith slight nose damage and put to work by the Luftwaffe. I’ll bet they wished they had even Stirlings in ’42.

No friendly aircraft were known to be in the area at the time and the possibility cannot, therefore, be excluded that these aircraft were Spitfires being flown by the enemy.

Interesting, but that’s implying a false dichotomy. Considering the way the intercepted aircraft behaved when faced with attacking Spitfires, is it not more likely that they were indeed Allied Spitfires? I would think Secret Squirrel Nazi Spitfires (TM) would react a little more evasively in that situation.

Gerard Morris in “Spitfire: The New Zealand Story” relates the intriguing tale of Kiwi F/O Alan Roberts flying with 131…

“On the 12 May 1944 he was flying as Black I in a Mk VII Spitfire MD125/NX-X…when they were vectored to investigate bogeys. On arrival in the area, above and behind – a perfect position for attacking – they recognised the aircraft as three Spitfires in close formation. No markings were seen. They were lost in the haze.

At this time, two pilots of 41 Squadron (F/O Cook and P/O Malone) were scrambled, and detailed to intercept a raid which had been plotted from 36 miles south of Portland at 1000 ft on a zig-zag course. The aircraft came within 10 miles east of Dartmouth before climbing to 10,000 ft and turning south-east. The radar plots faded near Alderney.

The 41 Squadron Spitfires intercepted three Spitfires which were flying north in mid-Channel. No tally-ho was given and one Spitfire (the middle one) half-rolled down, whilst the remaining two did a lazy turn back to France, giving an unheard-of dead line astern shot. They disappeared in the direction of Germany.

No friendly aircraft were known to be in the area at the time and the possibility cannot, therefore, be excluded that these aircraft were Spitfires being flown by the enemy. No markings or cannon were seen.

F/O Roberts and F/Sgt Rigg landed at 0945 hrs. During the afternoon they were called to Bolt Head to attend a conference held by Sector Command. No decision was made as to whether to expect hostile Spitfires in the area.”

– Gerard S. Morris, Spitfire: The New Zealand Story, 2000, p. 172

Just to add to the mystery!