Possibly not PC!!

After some deep consideration and reflection on this matter which IMHO rivals the recent atomic test in Nth Korea in its possible efect on world peace I feel that we actually have two major issues concerning perjorative expressions.

1. Nigger – that has been discussed at length and we are all, I believe, united in condemning the use of it as a name for Guy Gibson’s dog, which leads us to the second issue –

2. dog – now this term is commonly used to express the that an item is inherently faulty or badly made e.g. “this car is a real dog”.

So in real terms we have the unfortunate confluence of two nouns which could have the effect of offending half the people on the planet, most domestic pets and frightening small children and the very sensitive among us.

Accordingly in the interests of world peace and attempting to bring some sanity to the matter I suggest that Guy Gibson’s dog Nigger be replaced by a cat called Tiddles. This could be played by a ginger tom. Ginger toms are well liked, and if neutered they are racially neutral and no one to my knowledge dislikes redheads. Certainly there is no history of racial epithets directed at them.

The only sacrifice to historical reality would be that the Flight Sergeant would be asked to clean his litter tray when the raid starts, and as the Moehne dam is breached, “Tiddles” would flash across the ether.

We have some slight historic precedence for this move because a great fighter pilot was named “Ginger” Lacey.

🙂

Snapper… note the following:
“The Spanish word negro originates from the Latin word niger, meaning black. In English, negro or neger became negar and finally nigger, most likely under influence of French nègre. Neger (sometimes spelled “neggar”) prevailed in northern New York under the Dutch and also in Philadelphia, in its Moravian and Pennsylvania Dutch communities. For example, the New York City African Burial Ground was originally known as “Begraaf Plaats van de Neger.”

In the United States, the word nigger was not originally considered derogatory, but merely denotative of black, as it was in much of the world. In nineteenth-century American literature, there are many uses of the word nigger with no intended negative connotation (see below). The perception of the term nigger as derogatory is no doubt related to the fact that the Negro race itself was regarded by many whites of the time as inferior, lazy, simian in appearance, stupid, and criminally inclined. There is an observable pattern of terms denoting black people which have come to be regarded as derogatory, just as exist for all ethnic groups. Some well known ones are: Nigger, darky, coon, Spook, and colored, all of which were at various times acceptable, but are now considered offensive in North America. Black was generally the preferred term from the late 1960s until the 1990s, but has now been displaced in politically correct usage by African American, which resembles the term Afro-American that was in vogue in the early 1970s. However, Black continues in widespread popular use as a racial designation.

In Cuba the Spanish word prieto (similar origin to the Portuguese preto) is not derogatory. In Cuba a prieto is someone who is very dark, but not black (“Negro”). The Spanish word for “black” is “negro.” White Southern dialect in many parts of the southern United States changes the pronunciation of “Negro” to “nigra.” The form “nigger” may have come about from “nigra” through metathesis.

At times, black people have appropriated the slur, subverting it to a self-referential term that is often suggestive of familiarity, endearment, or kinship.

The word is occasionally spelt nigguh or even nikuh in imitation of some speakers’ pronunciation. However, the forms nigga and niggah are far more common alternatives. Other variations designed to avoid the term itself include nookah, nukka, and nagger.”

The Mrs (honest!) has the Sharon Osbourne show on the box and good old Shazza has used the word ERECTION to describe something you can squeeze!.

How bloody PC s that then before six pm and my two little uns are now very interested to know if we have one in the house and can they squeeze it 😡 😡 .

What was Nigger, is Nigger, and should stay…….Nigger.

Regards,

John.

That was then, now is now.

Moggy

One fine example of PC gone wrong is the recent (ish) add for Virgin Trains, the one involving a group of indians chasing down a Virgin train and at the very end one of them dresses up as a waiter to get on board.

To me it was pure childhood fantasy as in black (no offence!) and white John Wayne films, Bonanza and the likes that most of us have seen at some point in our childhood but becouse someone dared to make an advert in this modern ‘PC’ society they were occused of being ‘racist’ and ‘oppressive’.

The ITCC had a bucket load of complaints about it and I think it is discracefull that it ever went as far as it did, slowly but surely the world that I grew up in is being torn from underneath me as we have to make way for the PC brigade.

I can play devils advocate and see both side in most cases but there are few things that should not change, the following article is on said advert and the comments bit makes for some interesting reading.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5407908.stm

Regards,

John.

The answer is to have the dog play the lead role as Guy Dog………….he could have a pet white human called Honky trash who slobbers over him, chases cars, and urinates on trees and lamp posts every 30 seconds.

Surely its time dogs had equal rights too instead of being portrayed as slobbering butt sniffers……………………

Cute little tyke isn’t he?

Moggy

ROTFL 😀

Moggy

Moggy how dare you make defamatory remarks about the accuracy of this statement.

I have photographic evidence of the hound in question at the hotel and an account of him being seen regularly propping up the bar along side W/Co Bader.

Umm, Ollie, that’s not a particularly well thought out statement. It may well be far better than the original.

I like it that way though myself. None of this political correctnas back then and a great line up of actors.

Umm, Ollie, that’s not a particularly well thought out statement. It may well be far better than the original.

Wog-Dog. That’s far better, and contemporary.

Incidentally, I spy a lie. Nigger DOES mean a black person. It DOES NOT mean black.

Perhaps we need someone to post saying that they saw N!gger alive and well in a hotel in Liverpool in 1944.
😀

ROTFL 😀

Moggy

I dont think i am realy to botherd about what the remake is like, the orgional will always be better for me.

No you would have to call it Scouser then !

Perhaps we need someone to post saying that they saw N!gger alive and well in a hotel in Liverpool in 1944. They might also say that they helped him open his can of dog food.

😀

I didnt say it wasn’t offensive in its use in Pulp Fiction, nor did I say it was acceptable, i said its use in the context for historical representation in surely is more acceptable than its use in films like pulp fiction, personally as a parent I would rather see less offensive words in all films.

Just because the world has moved on in its attitudes in 60 years though, doesnt mean we have to start censoring history, Anyway I think the film makers have more on their plate than a furore around 1 word, I hope its less dull than Pearl Harbour was.

That was then, now is now.

Well – I know that – and you know that – but most of the audience may very well fail to grasp this.

And yes, the irony of what is considered more offensive nowadays – what the man called his dog, or the fact that he killed lots of people – is not lost on me.

No need to re-write the history. Its very well documented. This is a film. Not a documentary.

In Dambusters, its hardly likely to make the audience warm to Guy Gibson!

Why should people warm to him? He’s a mass murderer after all, and if he killed that many people today he’d be roundly condemned.

So, if you want to rewrite history and make w/c Gibson cuddly, hadn’t we better have a female crew member in his Lancaster since it would be wrong to show him discriminating against women. Then there’s the issue of how we’d get the disabled crew member’s wheelchair through the hatch.

That was then, now is now.

Moggy

Samuel Jackson also stated that he thought it extremely unrealistic that Quentin Tarantinos character uses the word (“Did you see that sign saying `dead nigger storage´?”) I agree that its use is mostly non offensive in the context of Pulp Fiction.

In Dambusters, its hardly likely to make the audience warm to Guy Gibson!

If you think the word is non offensive, then might I suggest that you use it the next time you find yourself in conversation with a black person.

Fact or Pulp Fiction

Surely if the word N!gger is acceptable to Samuel L Jackson then it should be to Peter !!!!

I watched an interview with Quentin Tarantino who fully defended his use of the N word, saying it’s use in the streets in America among the coloured community was widespread, this was nearly every other word in Pulp Fiction apart from the F word. Also widely used in subsequent films.

If Samuel L Jackson who is a terrific actor, and in his younger days an equal rights activist, is prepared to use it so prolificly in describing his own charachter in the film and others, in a work of fiction I really dont see what the fuss is about, the use of it as a term of colour reference in a factual context is surely not offensive.

Surely those crews went on missions like these to defend the right of free use of words/speech without fear of intimidation things seem to have changed.

But is that seeing things too simply !

It’s very easy to discount the idea of changing the name with the usual “thats PC gone mad!” reaction but if the name is a problem to some then it deserves reasoned debate, not the ridiculous unproportioned reaction that we have seen here and elsewhere.

Sadly Samuel L Jackson doesn’t represent every person (whatever their ethnic origin) who may have issues with the term in the same way that the usage of the word in Rap music doesnt justify the use of the word.

The film-makers have a difficult job ensuring that historical accuracy is maintained and also they realise, unlike some people on here, that not everyone has the depth of knowledge to understand the context of the time and the use of the word then. If it is used then a short text explanation could be used but I doubt any filmmaker would wish to proceed their film with some text about the name of a Dog when the film is about the sacrifice of the brave crews of 617.

If it were me? I would omit the name but not substitute it and then at the end have a short bit of text explaining this and any other changes to history that will be needed in the course of translating the story into a film. A bonus to this would mean that when the film does come out it gets the attention it deserves for the right reasons.

steve

Nigger, Nigger, Nigger.

There, I’ve said it! It’s the name of Guy Gibsons dead dog. I’ve been stationed at Scampton and been over to the grave many times. I’m fed up of this arguement raging about this subject.

If anyone were to use the word negatively about at any of our darker skinned cousins, then that’s their choice.

Historically accurate YES, PC who gives a dam(n), will anyone be offended about it being in the new film? Who cares?!!!!!

Regards,

C6
(White and proud, respectful of any person if they earn that respect, regardless of their skin colour).

PC choppers, go hang your heads in shame. 😡

This sounds very much like “Well it doesn´t offend ME – so that makes it alright then”.

What if the dog had been called “Circus 6 is a (insert expletive of choice here) and likes to (see previous) with (you get the general idea)”?

A tiny bit of respect for the sensibilities of others is going to kill you is it?