How many F4’s is it OK to have? Or B26’s?
I’m wondering about the US military aircraft type numbering convention (terminology?). If I’m not much mistaken there are, or have been:
P-no. (P38, P51, etc.)
F-no. (F4, F111, etc.)
A-no. (A- 26, A-10, etc.)
B-no. (B-17, B-26, etc.)
C-no. (C47, etc.)
T-no. (T-6, etc.)
What’s happened over time to those numbering conventions? Obviously the P’s became F’s, but then the F’s repeated … for example the F-4 Corsair and the later F-4 Phantom. Yet there was seemingly no need or demand to revert to a previous number … the F-111 came along after all.
But wait a minute, wasn’t the F-111 a bomber? Or at least an attack aircraft? Why is it an F?
Of course it’s not just the F’s that repeat … it’s everywhere. The 2x B-26’s I’m familiar with … but feel it’s downright insulting to the Marauder, a fantastic aircraft IMHO.
And relatively recent fighter and bomber aircraft have low numbers (eg. F-14, B-1, B-2) when there are (arguably infinite) numbers not previously denoted. Indeed higher numbers have been used for some aircraft (eg. F-117).
Presumably it’s not actually the aircraft that has the “wrong” number, rather it’s the design or requisition labelling. But how so? I’m confused … can someone who isn’t please clarify?
By: JDK - 12th September 2006 at 15:06
All fair points my friend, but I was referring to conversation rather than any journalistic efforts.
But if the Lightning is a British jet, why is the company that made it named English Electric? 😀
Ah, it’s all clear, so the guys the built the Mustang were Canadians and Mexicans as well as US Citizens! All the people that built the Blenheim had Bristol accents? And The Gladiator’s makers were all from Gloucestershire…
And at the risk of doing a poor Jerry Seinfeld parody, I’d also point out that if your reasoning stands, the jet is neither English or Electric!
What’s up with that?
It isn’t? Stap me.
By: J Boyle - 12th September 2006 at 14:57
Nope. I’d either write ‘EE’ or P-38 before writing either. I’d suspect it’s a British jet too… :p
All fair points my friend, but I was referring to conversation rather than any journalistic efforts.
But if the Lightning is a British jet, why is the company that made it named English Electric? 😀
And at the risk of doing a poor Jerry Seinfeld parody, I’d also point out that if your reasoning stands, the jet is neither English or Electric!
What’s up with that?
Getting back to the topic…you see aviation names and designations are a very tricky thing.
By: JDK - 12th September 2006 at 05:11
Hi John,
For the same reason why you’ve never heard someone say “Whirlwind”…the helicopter…not the twin engined fighter plane.”
Not really. The Whirlwind was never named ‘Whirlwind II’; it’s name was always just ‘Whirlwind’. However, the F-4 was called ‘Phantom II’, not ‘Phantom’, so using just the word and not the ‘two’ is a reasonable shortening, but it’s still a shortening.
And if it’s OK to drop the numeral when the previous is ‘dead’ why was ‘John Doe III’ so popular in the US (Or ‘Junior’)?
And when you say “Lightning” we assume you’re speaking of the Engish jet and not the Lockheed. 😀
Nope. I’d either write ‘EE’ or P-38 before writing either. I’d suspect it’s a British jet too… :p Given I’m generally writing in historical terms I can’t assume that a ‘current’ deignation’s good enough. And much as I like both types (in their own ways) the P-38 was a lot more important to Australia than the EE variety, and we’ve a few P-38s here.
Didn’t I already say that in my first reply?:D
You did indeed. I was writing while you posted!
By: SOC - 12th September 2006 at 04:59
Check this out:
http://www.designation-systems.net
All the info you’ll need on US designation systems is there.
By: J Boyle - 12th September 2006 at 04:51
Oh, and the F-4 should be written a Phantom II but rarely is…
For the same reason why you’ve never heard someone say “Whirlwind”…the helicopter…not the twin engined fighter plane.”
By the time the Phantom II was in wide service, the original Phantom I was long gone. Likewise, the Globemaster I and now II.
And when you say “Lightning” we assume you’re speaking of the Engish jet and not the Lockheed. 😀
The ‘Attack’ ‘A-26’ Invader was redesigned as the ‘Bomber’ ‘B-26’ Invader after W.W.II, and there was no conflict in current use as the B-26 Marauder was out of service by then.
Didn’t I already say that in my first reply?:D
By: J Boyle - 12th September 2006 at 04:46
And why is the C-17 A Globemaster III? I only know of one previous aircraft of that name.
C-74 Globemaster I. To make the plane a bit more useful, it was redesigned with a new fuselage (wings and tail were retained) and became the better known
C-124 Globemaster II
By: Bager1968 - 12th September 2006 at 04:19
F4D Skyray (Douglas delta-wing carrier jet fighter) = F-6 after 1962
By: Smith - 12th September 2006 at 04:01
At least you didn’t ask if the “B” stood for Boeing! 😀
Hey I knew that … think I’m a schmuck … it stands for Big
By: mike currill - 12th September 2006 at 03:54
And why is the C-17 A Globemaster III? I only know of one previous aircraft of that name.
By: JDK - 12th September 2006 at 02:46
The F4 Phantom is in fact the post 1962 designation of the F4H-1 (USN) or F-110 (USAF).
…
As for the B-26 your right, there are 2 :confused:
The ‘Attack’ ‘A-26’ Invader was redesigned as the ‘Bomber’ ‘B-26’ Invader after W.W.II, and there was no conflict in current use as the B-26 Marauder was out of service by then. But pointlessly confusing…
Oh, and the F-4 should be written a Phantom II but rarely is…
By: J Boyle - 12th September 2006 at 02:45
The F-111 was a fighter bomber..like the F-105.
The A-26 was redesignated to the B-26 when the “A” for attack prefix was dropped in 1947. Since the Martin AC were long gone, there was no conflict.
The “A” as in A-10, was added in the tri service designation system overhaul in 1962…that saw the USN/USMC/USCG adopt the USAF system.
(Thats why the F4H became the F-4A/B/C etc…)
And to add tho the previous reply..not only was the F-4 repeated, in the pre 12962 old USN designation system there were several F-4s…
F4F Wildcat
F4B Boeing biplane
F4U Corsair
F4H Phantom…
The key is the second letter which designated the airframe maker.
At least you didn’t ask if the “B” stood for Boeing! 😀
By: BIGVERN1966 - 12th September 2006 at 02:08
All US aircraft desigations were zero’ed in 1962 with a tri service desigation system.
All you need to know can be found here
The F4 Corsair is in fact the F4U-1 to F4U-7
F = Fighter, 4 = 4th type from that manufacturer, U for Vought 1-7 = versions
The F4 Phantom is in fact the post 1962 designation of the F4H-1 (USN) or F-110 (USAF).
F-111B was going to be a fighter for the USN, got cancelled and the F-14 Tomcat was built in its place
F-117 was a cover designation that stuck
As for the B-26 your right, there are 2 :confused:
Sign In
September 12, 2006 at 12:07 am