'Litle Demon' and others.

James

You are young and entheusiastic and that it to be applauded. But there are times when discretion is the better part of valour. Each case on its merits.

In this case, I had already flown in the aircraft a few months before, there were others who hadnt had a go yet. I would only be polite to let others have a go.

Yes I would, for the reasons stated by Mark and myself above. The Corsair example is a particulaly relevant point. That said the only ones I have turned down so far have been to give others a chance when I have already had a go.

Life is not without risk, but there are Risks and then there are Risks.

You turned down a warbird 😮 who cares if there’s Risk i wouldn’t turn down flying a warbird. There Risk when you drive a car on a motoway or A road 😀

Agreed!

The question is, it the risk worth it?

Yes the risk is worth it.

James

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Mr TFC can we have it painted like this?

P-47D THUNDERBOLT 42-25690
2nd.Lt. Dwight .Garrison .Belt, of Ohio U S A.
Aircraft Coded, WZ – U
78th Fighter Group, 84th Fighter Squadron

READ MORE HERE ABOUT 2nd lt Belt

Can we start a poll?

I don’t why I am going to say this have you ever thought off Emailing TFC about this request you would like?

Fab Pictures there

James

I always do, I’m only ever there by invite.

I figure that the pilot has weighed these responsibilities up before offering the invite. I also always make a point of saying that I am there of my own choice and I realise the risks.

So anyway, put it back into 2nd lt Belts colours, single seat config then all is sorted.

after many hours in the Harvard I would never want to go in the jump seat of a aeroplane I could not get out of in a hurry if needed.

Agreed!

On my P-51 ride it was a ballache to get into the back seat, that said getting out in an emergency the canopy would have been jettisoned so not as much of a problem.

The Sea Fury likewise.

The question is, it the risk worth it?

Thats only if the canopy dosen’t role upon jettison, they have a tendancy to do that. The late Hoof proudfoot went to great lengths going over the canopy jettison procedure. A pilot I had imense respect and admiration for.

Is the risk worth it, thats your choice, but please think of the extra responsibility the pilot takes on when you are in the back of a single seat fighter.

Moocher,

No you are not…you are going to die.

All flying is dangerous. You measure the risk.

Mark

10/10, and then you minimise it.

Oh yeh. You really are going to work your way out of that when the aeroplanes spinning and falling in all directions. it was made for one – keep it for one.

Moocher,

No you are not…you are going to die.

All flying is dangerous. You measure the risk.

Mark

The real risk with any of these conversions is exit whilst inverted on the ground. Most warbird incidents which have had a fatal ending have been combinations of
any kind of low level aerobatics and handling close to the ground i.e stall/spin.
The risk cannot be quantified and I guess unless you own a P-47 and are a pilot you have very little chance of getting to fly one. In context most airliners are flying a 500mph plus with a pressurised cabin and passengers usually with no seat belts on into very busy air space. Certainly no parachutes ! – so it’s a matter of is the risk worth it!
As for me – I only fly in any type of GA/warbird machine where I can either get to the stick or have more than one pilot in the front.

Agreed!

On my P-51 ride it was a ballache to get into the back seat, that said getting out in an emergency the canopy would have been jettisoned so not as much of a problem.

The Sea Fury likewise.

The question is, it the risk worth it?

That said are you really going to get up to a height where a parachute is an option. I have only gone up that high once in a warbird. All the other times we have been to low to sensibly use one.

I’d be more concerned about getting out in a hurry on the ground.

What you have to remember is, the pilot has to be able to get out and get the seat hinged forward before you can get out on the ground. Forget what I said about spinning if you like.
I have a lot of time in these planes and i would not like to have the responsibility of getting a pax out of that if it were in trouble.

mick

That said are you really going to get up to a height where a parachute is an option. I have only gone up that high once in a warbird. All the other times we have been to low to sensibly use one.

I’d be more concerned about getting out in a hurry on the ground.

Ray Stutsman and friend 😉 August ’85.

The seat hinges forward.

Mark

Oh yeh. You really are going to work your way out of that when the aeroplanes spinning and falling in all directions. it was made for one – keep it for one.

Would anyone offered a trip in the back seat of ‘ANY’ warbird ‘REALLY’ turn it down?. I know I wouldn’t.

Yes I would, for the reasons stated by Mark and myself above. The Corsair example is a particulaly relevant point. That said the only ones I have turned down so far have been to give others a chance when I have already had a go.

Life is not without risk, but there are Risks and then there are Risks.

The BBMF Lancaster carries parachutes but I was told that they would never be used because it would never fly high enough for them to be of any use.

Would anyone offered a trip in the back seat of ‘ANY’ warbird ‘REALLY’ turn it down?. I know I wouldn’t.

Brian

Everyone will have their own level and judgement of acceptable risk. On this day, with this pilot, and the necessary insurance, I deemed the risk acceptable. On other occasions, for example, a chance to ride in a Corsair where the entry for the passenger was a hatch in the floor, I deemed not acceptable – a wheels up landing and a fire etc.

I totally agree, whilst my post was tongue in cheek it has a serious point which you have correctly commented upon. Incidentally how do you think you would have managed in Little Demon if you has a wheels up landing? You have considerably more warbird back seat time than I have and I am always interesed to learn.

I can remember another Warbird bail out, it was a P-51 in The States a couple of years or more ago, both pilot and passenger bailed out. I think it may have been one painted a Glamorous Glennis but I’m not sure.

Acceptable risk.

Mark

Just because you can get in doesn’t guarantee you can get out!

In a hurry!

When inverted!

Without clouting you rather handsome bonce on the pointy sticky out bit of cockpit combing above your head.

But its all a case of acceptable risk at the end of the day isn’t it!

MOTF,

It is more subtle than that. The canopy is right back. The pilot goes first. Then the seat hinges forward. Then the passenger exits.

Out of interest how many Warbirds do we have on record where a pilot has had a mechanical failure or whatever and elected to jump using his/her chute. I can think of just one in the last thirty years, a Curtis bi-plane fighter that caught fire because the filler cap was insecure or not refitted after fuelling. There are surely a few more. I doubt whether many, pilot or passenger, would get out safely at the typical heights these aircraft are operated at.

Everyone will have their own level and judgement of acceptable risk. On this day, with this pilot, and the necessary insurance, I deemed the risk acceptable. On other occasions, for example, a chance to ride in a Corsair where the entry for the passenger was a hatch in the floor, I deemed not acceptable – a wheels up landing and a fire etc.

The heady days of the 1980’s, just jumping into a Warbird for a joyride are well past, not least due to potential litigation and today’s compensation culture.

Mark

Mark

Just because you can get in doesnt guarantee you can get out!

In a hurry!

When inverted!

Without clouting you rather handsome bonce on the pointy sticky out bit of cockpit combing above your head.

But its all a case of acceptable risk at the end of the day isnt it!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Mr TFC can we have it painted like this?

P-47D THUNDERBOLT 42-25690
2nd.Lt. Dwight .Garrison .Belt, of Ohio U S A.
Aircraft Coded, WZ – U
78th Fighter Group, 84th Fighter Squadron

READ MORE HERE ABOUT 2nd lt Belt

Can we start a poll?

Ray Stutsman and friend 😉 August ’85.

The seat hinges forward.

Mark