Just been going over some old stuff and I found some refewresnces to the Swordfish being fitted with Anti Submarine Radar. The Antena was fitted above the top wing facing forward.
Has anyone heard of this and/or seen it? I always thought that the Stringbag was out of service by the time Radar had reached the FAA.
Another thing I have found reference to is the fact that pilots used to cut their engines and shallow dive on to a susspected sub, thus attempting to catch the crew unawares as to the attack, then just as the pilot let the DC’s go he hit the engine starter and brought the Pegasus back to life in order to climb away.
I had no idea that this was the standard practice for the crews of this wonderful plane, did they still use this tactic with the advent of the FAA fitting rockets to the Swordfish? doesn’t really sound reasonable since the rockets had a huge speed advantage and could be fired some distance away.
By: Ja Worsley - 1st May 2006 at 16:45
Guys if I do eventually get over there, it is my plan to see all the aircraft collections and even go to Farnbrough when it is on, that has been my dream since I can remember, most kids wanted to go to Disneyland, I wanted to go to Farnbrough!
By: dhfan - 1st May 2006 at 16:20
Or you could go to Duxford (not exactly on the way to Wales but nearer than you are now) and see the radar-equipped RAF MkIII.
By: Ja Worsley - 1st May 2006 at 16:06
Papa: Thanks my old friend, I will most definately have to visit England one day, my plan is that when the missus and I finally do marry (Yes we are living in sin), I want to take her to Walse for the honeymoon since she is Welsh.
James: Thanks for the help mate, I have seen pics of how big it is but untill you actually see it, you never really know, I remember seeing my first Catalina and thinking “gee, it’s smaller than I thought, but now we have one near my place with HARS (a group that I am going to join soon) I spoke with ,one of the pilots of their cat who did a leg flying it over from Portugal. We sat in side up the tail end and chatted for over an hour and I came to think that it was bigger than I thought. Can’t wait to see more exciting stuff, HARS has a Beaufighter in the works and that being my favourite plane of all time I am more determined to join now!!!
By: JDK - 1st May 2006 at 09:41
…but what is the stall point of a Swordfish? Could it glide some distance even loaded with say, six, depthcharges? My physics logic says that it is possible but not for very far.
Ja, it’s simply neither a good or useful idea…
A Swordfish with DCs will be heavily loaded, and just throttling back the engine to idle would be infinitely better than switching off; the residual engine noise would be lost completely in the ambient noise of the ocean; the engine would restart when it was needed, and there would be no extra drag from the prop.
If you’d like to switch off your (single) engine over the Atlantic, you are welcome, and as soon as the engine stops, you have a massive three blade airbrake up front that may well not help restarting the engine. Minimum glide angle would be very steep, and you aren’t going to ‘zoom’ very far, especially if the donk don’t play.
Eric Brown states that the Swordfish had a 20 kt speed range to cover cruise, climb and landing. 85 kt cruise (157km/h*) with a favourable wind, and 70 kts (130 km/h) with an unfavourable one. Stall was about 52 kts, (96 km/h), and it would dive and 200 kts (371km/h) could be reached, the max engine rpm of 2,860 being the limiting factor.
Getting to see a Swordfish up close is an impressive experience; being a biplane, one subconsciously expects it to be small, but it’s the size of a W.W.II era twin engined fighter…
It was quite a climb to the cockpit!
A search for ‘Swordfish’ on the forum will throw up a few interesting threads.
Cheers
*Brown, in Wings of the Navy, only quotes kts and km/h. You’ll have to do your own Mph, I’ve dun enough numbers for my liking… 😉
By: Papa Lima - 30th April 2006 at 18:28
Swordfish at Yeovilton
Ja, if you get over to the FAA Museum at Yeovilton you could see this one . . .
By: Ja Worsley - 30th April 2006 at 17:05
My debt to you all, the Stringbag was a truely wonderful plane, it is my wish that before I depart this mortal coil, I have the chance to see one.
I know I am pushing my luck here, but what is the stall point of a Swordfish? Could it glide some distance even loaded with say, six, depthcharges? My physics logic says that it is possible but not for very far.
By: JDK - 30th April 2006 at 10:55
A lot of aircraft were fitted with ASV RDF, but because of censorship during wartime, many pics were altered to take out the visible aerials, and substitute stories created to explain their successes: hence ‘Cats eyes’ Cunningham, and ‘carrots’ for helping with night vision.
The Sunderland, Walrus, Swordfish, Albacore, Barracuda and Blenheim are all well known with photographs with the radar arrays blanked out, and these retouched pics are still shown, often, today, and the stories still don’t lie down and die, despite the true story being out.
If you look for pics of these aircraft with the aerials showing, they are there – on the Walrus there was a pair n the top centre section, parallel to the leading edge, with a pair of ‘TV’ style arrowhead aerials on the outer interpane struts. They were NEVER shown during the war, and thus the work of the ASV was also thrown into shade. I mention the Blenheim, as there’s a very famous and familiar shot of an all-black Mk.IF which has aerials – but not in the most famous version of the photo.
As to rockets having range beyond the sound footprint of the aircraft, that’s simply not so; the rockets were an effective weapon, but the aircraft would be clearly visible and audible with engine on from quite a distance. As to stopping a large radial engine with a fixed-pitch unfeatherable prop on a high drag single-engined biplane – I don’t think it would be a good idea or much use as the glide angle would be very unfunny. Throttling back would be a lot more likely, and would easily be parlayed in the slightly hysteric press to ‘cutting’ the engine.
Cheers
By: Papa Lima - 30th April 2006 at 06:55
Here we are, Putnam’s “British Naval Aircraft since 1912” page 145:
“By the end of 1941 Swordfish were taking ASV radar on operations, and on the night of 21 December 1941 a Swordfish so equipped from 812 Sqn based at Gibraltar, sank the first U-boat ever destroyed by an aircraft at night.”
By: Papa Lima - 30th April 2006 at 06:48
Mk III radar-equipped Swordfish
OK, this was after the war, and the radar is beneath the aircraft, but I too have heard somewhere that they were radar-equipped during the war – Swordfish could carry anything! Still looking through my reference books, though.
My late father was in the FAA repairing Swordfish and could have told me, but he passed away long ago.
Postwar the Swordfish survived in various capacities, that seen here is a radar-equipped Mk.III of the Royal Canadian Navy. Once again in overall aluminum with a black trimmed cowl. On radar equipped aircraft, the operator’s cockpit was partially covered over to prevent glare on the scope screen.
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April 30, 2006 at 6:23 am