As editor of Fighter Log, Stephen Grey has asked me to post the following news about the collection and it’s future operations.
“To avoid further idle speculation & comment which might potentially become damaging to TFC, the IWM, & worrying to their staff & partners, TFC have made the following commentary:
We are very much in favour of free speech & the need to know. We appreciate that TFC is in the specialist public eye & so will share with you, on this occasion, the current collecting policy. Current is used in a ‘biblical’ sense, as some of these changes have taken a quarter of a century to bring about:.
The Collection is about to be enriched by the Gladiator & Cr42, which we hope will soon be flying as a unique pair. It will shortly be further enhanced by a very rare P47G razorback & a unique Pearl Harbour surviving P40B. A TF51 Mustang will also arrive during the year, as well as a Spitfire 18. To make economic & physical room for the new a/c, the Hurricane has been traded for the P47G, the Jungmeister sold & it is quite possible that the P47D & Beaufighter may move to new owners later in the year.
It is of very considerable regret on Stephen Grey’s part, that the spectacular & important restoration work on the Beaufighter could not be enjoyed in flight by him, due to European JAR regulations which inhibit the flight of heavyweight multi-engined a/c by pilots of “free bus pass age” who have been obliged to surrender their professional licences – simply by virtue of their age & past medical treatment, regardless of it’s success. Meanwhile, Stephen says he is looking forward to a ‘loon’ in the new kit, as well as keeping up to speed on the old favourites.
Stephen hopes for a Beau home which will be able to accelerate the pace of restoration, so that he & every interested party can, as early as possible, see this amazing aircraft in action. In the interim, TFC is actively continuing the outstanding restoration work on this very important & historical plane.
It is in the very nature of Collecting that International trade occurs. Without it, there might be be no modern significant active Collections. TFC is not excluded from such ground rules. It frequently regrets that it is unable to keep, or obtain, everything that takes its fancy or passes its way. However, please do give consideration that if it is the subject of intense scrutiny, of the type recently engaged, it can be truly damaging to some of the things it seeks to achieve & to the support it enjoys.
Whilst all of this is going on, TFC is currently trying to put together another very memorable Flying Legends Airshow & hopes that you will all be there to enjoy it. Bring several friends please”
By: Moggy C - 18th February 2006 at 12:06
A good note on which to end this thread.
Moggy
Moderator
By: Rob Beard - 18th February 2006 at 11:57
P47
There is an awfull lot of back pedling on here, you should have all thought about what you were posting the other night, as it has nothing to do with individuals what TFCs business is, all you have done is thrown a spanner in the works. If TFC wants to tell the world what they are doing they will release a press release in the mean time keep your damned noses out of other people business. Maybe you would like to go round Mr Grays house and have a nosey through his bedroom drawers and take pictures of his bathroom and post the pictures on here and critisize his colour coinordation of his curtains.
Dis-pleased
Rob
Don’t bother replying to this post, although you probably will as someone will want the last word, but in this case its ME……. 😡
By: Malcolm McKay - 18th February 2006 at 10:58
It is plain you know far more about the ownership and operation of a warbird fleet than the Fighter Collection.
I’m sure they are very grateful for your comment and are kicking themselves as we speak.
Moggy
Just pointing out that the P47G is not rare – just a rather underproduced and unused variant. No axe to grind with TFC, so don’t get your knickers in a twist.
To most people with some knowledge of the P47, no matter how slight, the details of the P47G are common knowledge. Personally, and I stress personally, if a Hurricane was the trade then I’m afraid it was a poor deal – the bog standard P47D razorback saw service, while the G was relegated to training duties.
I hope they keep the cockpit interior painted in its distinctive colour. I quote from one source –
“Production problems plagued the P47G, and quality control was substandard. None were ever used in combat. Instead, they were only in training and test programs.” Kinsey, P47 Thunderbolt, D & S Vol. 54, page 59.
The fault was not the aircraft but poor work at the Curtiss factory. So basically all the P47G was was a poorly produced copy of the P47D.
By: biactolboy - 18th February 2006 at 10:26
I quite agree.
Just imagine, with all their experience, TFC still fall for that old trick of buying the one with the wrong colored cockpit!
By: Moggy C - 18th February 2006 at 08:59
If they swapped a Hurricane for this then someone must have seen them coming.
It is plain you know far more about the ownership and operation of a warbird fleet than the Fighter Collection.
I’m sure they are very grateful for your comment and are kicking themselves as we speak.
Moggy
By: Malcolm McKay - 18th February 2006 at 03:13
Frankly the P47G is not a particularly interesting variant. IIRC they were Curtiss built razor back Ds and none saw combat. All were used as trainers in the States. Their one distiguishing feature is that the cockpit interior was painted in Interior Green rather than the Dark Green standard for all other Jugs.
If they swapped a Hurricane for this then someone must have seen them coming.
By: RPSmith - 18th February 2006 at 01:19
[QUOTE=Consul]I recall UK displays in the 1960s when flying examples of WWII aircraft could be counted on one hand……..[QUOTE]
Very true (“When I wer a lad”) the first flying American WW2 fighter I ever saw was Charles Masefield’s P-51 in 1967 when it won the Kings Cup. To see it at all was a wondrous rarity – nowadays we are spoilt rotten to be able to see so much. Thanks Mr G, hope you at least get a ride in the Beaufighter whoever restores it.
Roger Smith
By: wessex boy - 17th February 2006 at 23:45
Just the fact that there is an organisation so near and accessible that can talk in the terms that TFC can, throwing around the names of the historic aircraft the way a dealer discusses his car stock, makes one salivate 😀
By: stringbag - 17th February 2006 at 23:13
Sure, we can be disappointed about the Beaufighter, but are we not lucky sods anyway?
Black6
You have hit the nail on the head there. Think of all the unique types TFC have brought to the UK over the years, the Bearcat and the Hawk 75 to mention two. Now we have the CR42 and a razorback P47G to look forward to 🙂
By: Arabella-Cox - 17th February 2006 at 22:51
I for one, count myself extremely fortunate to be able to view the TFC collection and look forward to these new aircraft. I also think that the running of this collection has nothing to do with me and I feel a little disappointed that Mr Grey felt the need to post in this way.
Sure, we can be disappointed about the Beaufighter, but are we not lucky sods anyway?
Regards
Black6
By: trumper - 17th February 2006 at 22:34
Some really good news but i am very sad to think of another Hurricane departing TFC.We seem to be tripping over Spitfires but the Hurricane,well i will be very sad to see it go 🙁
By: Seafuryfan - 17th February 2006 at 22:30
Echoing the thanks and appreciation above. I’m old enough to have seen your P51 at Biggin Hill in 1980 Mr Grey, what an amazing contribution you and your team have made to the worldwide warbird community since – and how lucky we are to have your collection here in the UK.
BTW, I hope you saw the recently posted air-to-airs of you and Ray Hanna in Switzerland in the (red painted) P51. Wonderful stuff.
Thanks for the post, Grayfly.
By: Napier Sabre - 17th February 2006 at 21:53
Great news, many thanks Grayfly. Any idea when KZ321 will leave? I would very much like to see her again before she does.
By: *Zwitter* - 17th February 2006 at 21:35
keep up the good work TFC
more power to you all 🙂
By: SJL - 17th February 2006 at 21:01
Thanks for the update Grayfly. I wholeheartedly agree with Roger W. I’ve been fortunate enough to see Mr Gray’s wonderful aircraft at Duxford a couple of times, and Beaufighter or not his efforts viewed from this side of the world continue to amaze me.
By: Roger W - 17th February 2006 at 20:24
I’ve been going to DX for 30 years, and to Legends since it started. I’ve been sunburnt, cold and wet, but never disappointed! I share the collective appreciation of Mr Grey’s statement and Grayflys conveyance of it, but even more, the joy of being able in some way to share the results of his enthusiasm and efforts up where they belong. We owe all at TFC a great deal even though we probably drive them nuts on occasions!
By: Fluffy - 17th February 2006 at 20:19
I believe Russ taxied Black6 once and got his wrists slapped by the IWM
By: AndyG - 17th February 2006 at 20:09
Well, looking further on the bright side, perhaps in this other part of the world where she may be finished and flown, the bus pass rule won’t apply and a certain gentleman might even write into the terms & conditions of sale that he is allowed one flight when it does?
I always thought it was a dreadful shame that Russ Snadden wasn’t allowed to have a go in Black 6 after all his years of toil and woes….
By: duxfordhawk - 17th February 2006 at 19:47
Thanks for posting this news Grayfly, I read it earlier and just want to say, Best of luck to Stephen Grey and to all at TFC with the future projects, Its fair to say exciting and special times are ahead.
We all owe a lot to The Fighter Collection for giving us the chance to see such special Aircraft fly, We are lucky to have such a opportunity to have such a collection in the UK.
Its a pity about this “Free Bus Pass” ruling preventing Stephen Grey flying twin engined types, I can fully understand why he may pass on the Beaufighter project to someone else for this reason, As long as she flies somewhere in the world its great. As to “No Guts No Glory” shes the only Thunderbolt i have seen fly, So a Razor P-47G will be a treat to the eye.
By: Consul - 17th February 2006 at 18:19
I recall UK displays in the 1960s when flying examples of WWII aircraft could be counted on one hand and were mostly operated by manufacturers or what have since become historic flights. The notion of a person restoring and maintaining a massive private collection were but a dream. I know there are a number of folk who have contributed to the generation and growth of the UK warbird scene but IMHO Stephen Grey has had the greatest positive effect. Being a renowned international business expert he could no doubt have opted to locate his collection in any country he chose. We are VERY fortunate he chose the UK and has shared his passion by creating a situation where we can not only enjoy see the TFC collection fly but can get close to much of the restoration work. I’ve travelled to many museums, restoration shops and private collections round the World but consider TFC unparalled. In my professional life one of my responsibilities concerns information security and commercial sensitivity of information around any potential deal is very high and is a delicate area. Whilst interest in aircraft collections is understandable and often helps their support, it would be a great shame if unwelcome speculation jeopardised the health or growth or continuance of any such organisation(s) and there is a balance to be drawn. I’m grateful for grayfly’s taking the trouble and concern to post this re TFC and I agree with HP57’s comment posted at 17.47.
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February 17, 2006 at 3:44 pm