Canada Aviation Museum Tour

Thank you. my education is being well and truly improved today. Now I know why I spend so much time on here.

Long torturous story… the CF-105 was cancelled by the govenment in 1959. General concensus in air-defence circles was it was the age of the missile and so Canada ended up with the BOMARC air defence missile (I’m not going to entertain any of the conspiracy theories). Eventually we ended up with the CF-104 which ended up fulfilling our tactical (including nuclear) strike and reconnaisance role in NATO. Air defence at home was eventually filled with the CF-101 Voodoo along side the venerable CF-100 Canuck both of which soldiered on into the 80s when finally replaced by the Hornet. Hornet officially replaced the CF-101, CF-104 and CF-116 (F-5). By that point the CF-100 was flying in more of a combat support role as an electronic warfare airframe (as well as our last Voodoo.

The last time I was at the Canada Aviation Museum, (before the new hangar and layout) hiding along the south wall were stacked the outer wing panels of one of the CF-105s. That nose is from the only completed Mk2 – RL206 (which never flew). There are a few other pieces on display, now including the only intact Iroquois engine. Also on display previously had been some solid metal aerodynamic models.

The Toronto Aerospace Museum http://www.torontoaerospacemuseum.com/ at Downsview has a full-scale replica of the Arrow in their collection.

Great Arrow reading… ‘Storms of Controversy’, Palmiro Campagna ISBN 0-7737-5861-5

Great Arrow reference (a MUST have)… ‘Arrow’, Boston Mills Press, ISBN 1-55046-0471

Canada Aviation Museum (Arrow)
http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/collections/artifacts/aircraft/AvroCanadaCF-105Arrow.shtml

James

Ah I see. I seem to remember that it never went into service. Do we know why, and what the RCAF got instead?
I’m sorry, maybe I’m thick but isn’t the idea of rocket propelled magnesium alloy models a little silly? After all magnesium might be a metal but it does burn well. Could this be why none of them were found?

Sorry,
I wasn’t very clear. It’s the largest surviving chunk of the Arrow. There is a group building a full scale replica, and there’s a lot more bits, but that’s it.

The desperation to ‘recapture’ the Arrow extended to trying to recover some magnesium alloy rocket propelled models, fired into Lake Ontario, which I followed the story of when I was in Canada a couple of years ago. They weren’t found.

Cheers!

Thanks for that. Are there any complete examples of the Arrow still in existence? I always thought it was a good looking machine

Great photos, thanks for sharing. Would I be correct in thinking that the nose section with 206 on the intake belongs to a CF 105 Arrow?

You are right. It’s the largest chunk of the surviving prototype. A ‘holy grail’ of Canadian aviation. 😉

A great museum (and a very good website) both are a recommended visit.
http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/

I thought that there were a few British built Mk.IIb’s, James? I’m sure some of the Z…. series Hurricanes that have come back from Russia have the 12 gun wing.

Also – you will probably find that the guns look a lot shorter if the flash eliminators are removed (I’m sure you know, they are the little conical pieces in the end of the barrel – unless I’m mistaken, they are simply screwed in there). If they have that extra length removed, then I imagine that although the fabric might touch the gun on the inboard barrel, and might not conform to the profile of the wing, at least it would be possible to dope some fabric over it. Of course, that’s pretty much irrelevant, as no doubt the preserved Hurri doesn’t have any guns anyway!

Yes they are flash hiders (but they don’t anyway, Have you tried hiding a 2 foot muzzle flash?) Yes they are just screwed on tho the end of the barrel

Great photos, thanks for sharing. Would I be correct in thinking that the nose section with 206 on the intake belongs to a CF 105 Arrow?

James, check your email.

Here is another showing the inner wing arrangement.

I had a look through my notes and found a picture showing ammo being loaded into the guns of a Hurricane IIB.

Looking at the picture, the gun positions are staggered to accommodate the individual ammunition boxes, also the ammo boxes for the outer two guns seem to be mounted more forward than the wing’s inner four…

Thanks TB!

Any chance of a high res scan of the pic for my files? PM on its way. The inner four guns were indeed staggered, as any gun ‘set’ has to be, as the breeches for feed (as you’ve spotted) and link/cartridge ejection need to be staggered so they don’t interfere. Look at almost any gun wing and if the guns are side by side, they’ll be staggered, and it’s shown usually by the ejection ports. (The P-47 is another version with a ‘chevron’ of guns).

The outer guns in the 12 gun wing are probably further forward to fit within the reduced wing thickness further out. The rear of the Browning .303 is quite tall. Note that the ammo boxes are hard against the back of the spar.

Cheers

I had a look through my notes and found a picture showing ammo being loaded into the guns of a Hurricane IIB.

Looking at the picture, the gun positions are staggered to accomodate the individual ammuntion boxes, also the ammo boxes for the outer two guns seem to be mounted more forward than the wing’s inner four.

The flash eliminator adds approximately 4″ to the overall length of Browning .303 machine gun.

Regards,

Great pics.

Ollie,

Yes, that is hole in the bomb aimers blister.

I was told that someone was working overhead and a tool slipped from his grasp or work platform striking the aircraft.

Regards,

Lovely photos, do i spy a hole in the bomb aimers glazing on the Lancaster?

Hi Eddie,
Quite right on both counts – I didn’t mean to imply there were no British 12 guns wings, just that they never saw much service, the 8 gun wing being replaced with the four cannon before the 12 gun wing got a chance.

(The Typhoon was originally intended to have a 12 gun wing, but the cannon came on stream and (IIRC) only a couple were ever so fitted.)

To be correct, you can theoretically hang any wing on any Hurricane – as the centre section stayed the same throughout production.

The ex-Russian wing you refer to was indeed as 12 gun wing; but was also modified by the Russians to take their arrangement of their guns.

Also in Melvyn Hiscock’s book on the Hurricane he states that the Tac-R Hurricanes has one mg or two-cannon removed, to compensate for the weight of the fuselage camera.

As to the flash eliminators, I think you are right, but there are relatively few wartime shots of 12 gun wings, so it’s to difficult to generalise as to how they were set up. (There’s an official photo in the front of Melvin Hiscock’s Hurricane book on pp16, that has doped fabric over one protruding barrel, and around the other barrel that sticks further out.)

Just as fascinating as the Spitfire, and so much less documented… :rolleyes:

Cheers

Good point’s Eddie. I think the majority of ‘B’ wings surviving are from Canadian airframes; the British Hurricanes went from 8 x .303 to 4 x cannon, rather than actually using the proposed 12 gun wing. However that was the ‘popular’ version in Canada.

The Canadian Aviation Museum example is interesting in that it actually has the outer guns fitted, and clearly shows that they protrude from the leading edge. There’s at least one British preserved Hurricane with the red doped patches in place on the outer wing where the barrel ought to be sticking out – perhaps it’s fitted with the ‘sawn off’ .303, and had an East-End pilot called Kray?

I thought that there were a few British built Mk.IIb’s, James? I’m sure some of the Z…. series Hurricanes that have come back from Russia have the 12 gun wing.

Also – you will probably find that the guns look a lot shorter if the flash eliminators are removed (I’m sure you know, they are the little conical pieces in the end of the barrel – unless I’m mistaken, they are simply screwed in there). If they have that extra length removed, then I imagine that although the fabric might touch the gun on the inboard barrel, and might not conform to the profile of the wing, at least it would be possible to dope some fabric over it. Of course, that’s pretty much irrelevant, as no doubt the preserved Hurri doesn’t have any guns anyway!

Yes they do have plans to mount CF-100 Mk5 18752 (former CFB Uplands) outside the museum entrance…someday as funds and time perhaps..

She is currently still stored outside the new hangar. Hope one day to see freshed up abit and displayed in her Uplands Sqn colours…

I think the 100785 now on display at CWHM was the second to last flyer for the CF100’s arriving at the museum on 10 February, 1982.

The museum has an excellent website

They have two CF-100s listed:
Avro Canada CF-100 Mk.5 Canuck (100785) (Painted as the prototype)
Avro Canada CF-100 Mk.5 Canuck (100757)

Peter,

Any idea as to how many are in use by the snowbird team at this moment…they must have at least one or two reserve aircraft for the team.

The last I understood, they had kept 16 Tutors dedicated for Snowbirds use when they were finally withdrawn… I did see a couple shots last season with one carrying a ’15’ on the tail. (In 1996 they kept 12 airworthy – 9 plus 3 for coordinators)

Nice shots Canuck, I live an hour from the CAM and haven’t been through since 2003. Its great to see what they’ve done to the place. Just curious about that CF-100 – was that the one previously painted as the Prototype? Last word I had (from inside) was that another CF-100 was to be mounted outside the entrance. That aircraft had been sitting on the north side of the building in pieces – it may have been the one formerly plinth-mounted at ex-CFB Uplands.

That’s the Hurricane “b” armament.
The “a” was 8 Browning .303s
The “b” was 12 .303s
The “c” was 4 Hispano 20mm
The “d” was 2 Vickers S guns

(I’m open to correction on the list…!)

The “b” wing isn’t uncommon on preserved Hurricanes.

Good point’s Eddie. I think the majority of ‘B’ wings surviving are from Canadian airframes; the British Hurricanes went from 8 x .303 to 4 x cannon, rather than actually using the proposed 12 gun wing. However that was the ‘popular’ version in Canada.

The Canadian Aviation Museum example is interesting in that it actually has the outer guns fitted, and clearly shows that they protrude from the leading edge. There’s at least one British preserved Hurricane with the red doped patches in place on the outer wing where the barrel ought to be sticking out – perhaps it’s fitted with the ‘sawn off’ .303, and had an East-End pilot called Kray?