British aircraft with RR Ghost?

>> but I believe there was a Meteor fitted with RR Tyne turboprops <<

RR Trent turboprops methinks?

Right you are. I am not doing well today!

>> but I believe there was a Meteor fitted with RR Tyne turboprops <<

RR Trent turboprops methinks?

Slightly off topic but I just LOVE alertken’s prose style. Grammatically all over the place but absolutelly succinct and informative (and accurate too).

Me too, in the shorter posts, but I find with the more complex stuff there is a kind of ‘critical mass’ beyond which I find it difficult to comprehend and invariably spend hours teasing all the details out!

Apologies for getting my Siddeleys mixed up, there are a lot of them out there.

Off topic again, but I believe there was a Meteor fitted with RR Tyne turboprops – anyone know what came of this?

Would it be fair to say that the Ghost was about on a par with the RR Nene, in terms of performance and the level of technology?

I haven’t anything to hand to confirm it but that sounds about right.
The Ghost was an improved Goblin and the Nene was an improved Derwent so they were both designed using experience gained from their predecessors, in the case of the Nene on a tablecloth IIRC.

That’s apart from the Derwent 5 which was a Nene scaled down to fit a Meteor nacelle.

I believe that is Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire 😮

Roger Smith

…and originally Metro-Vick Sapphire. 🙂

Slightly off topic but I just LOVE alertken’s prose style. Grammatically all over the place but absolutelly succinct and informative (and accurate too).

and Bristol Siddeley Sapphire

I believe that is Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire 😮

Roger Smith

There is a book that describes the combat between Hunters and Sabres. The Sabre being the much older design actually came out on top.

I’m sure that some one will add some facts to this brief statement, like who actually was at each other with them! (Possible India and A.N.Other).

I would be interested to hear more.

I’d also like to know which version of each aircraft it was and what the circumstances were. From the stats I am aware of, the Hunter F.6 was a cut above any Sabre apart, perhaps, from the Avon engined ones, in all but range.

The Hunter F1/F2, being an interceptor rather than an air superiority fighter like the Sabre, had considerably less time to hang around and fight (the difference was less with drop tanks) but was superior in terms of rate of climb and speed, and was of course much more heavily armed (two 30mm Aden cannon). All other things being equal the F6 would leave even the last Sabres for dead I imagine.

Returning to topic, the DH Venom was something of a stop-gap, with an uprated engine (DH Ghost instead of Goblin) and a new wing on a Vampire fuselage, while the Navy ummed and ahd over whether it wanted the DH110 (Sea Vixen) or not. It was not the latest technology and, while a big leap over the Vampire, would not have been able to compete on equal terms with Sabres and MiG 15s. By the time a new generation of fighters was being planned to match and exceed these first generation swept wing aircraft, engines had moved on too and we had the likes of RR Avon and Bristol Siddeley Sapphire to choose from.

Would it be fair to say that the Ghost was about on a par with the RR Nene, in terms of performance and the level of technology?

Hunter, Swift and Javelin were 1948-funded as base defenders for a Medium Bomber Force to be operational 1955. UK chose to leap-frog the first swept-wing generation – J-29, F-84F, F-86 – and got caught out in June,1950 in Korea. US Mutual Defense Aid poured vast sums everywhere – Mystere IV, various Venoms for people, and accepted Swift as a “standard” type, ordered for Netherlands and W.Germany, with a second line at Shorts. Interim US $ Aid systems/engine and C$ Aid airframe Sabre were to get us into real types: we did not choose Sabres, we accepted them with alacrity, free.
Swift didn’t work, nor in 1953 did Hunter, so MDAP put Sabres into W.Germany. Hunter then got well so MDAP paid for mamny of RAFs and put them into RBAF/RNethAF, licence-built.

Hunters vs Sabres

There is a book that describes the combat between Hunters and Sabres. The Sabre being the much older design actually came out on top.

I’m sure that some one will add some facts to this brief statement, like who actually was at each other with them! (Possible India and A.N.Other).

I would be interested to hear more.

I guess my question really is why did RAF choose the Sabre instead of a Bristish product?

We did choose a British product…it was called the Hunter 😀 ! The only problem was that it wasn’t ready at the time so the Sabre was selected as a stop gap.

Anne

No such engine. There was, however, a de Havilland Ghost.

well said that man
Roger Smith

After a quick Google, later Canadian Sabres were powered by Orenda engines but they were Canadian, not British.

Wasn’t the Canadair Sabre powered by a pommie engine which gave more than a little trouble in service – Orenda or something if I recall ?

Regards
John P

You’re correct, other Canadian-built Sabres (the Mk 3,5 & 6) for the RCAF and SAAF had the Orenda engine. The RAF machines had US engines.
BTW: the final US Sabre…the F-86H had 20mm cannons…and a much larger engine…(8920 lb st vs 5970 for the F model).
The H models were retired as late as 1970.

No such engine. There was, however, a de Havilland Ghost.

I guess my question really is why did RAF choose the Sabre instead of a Bristish product?

Easy…
The appearance of the MiG-15 in Korea highlighted the need for a swept-wing high performance fighter.
The Sabers (built in Canada) were operational in January of 1953. It would be another 18 months before the first Hunters were delivered to 43 Sqdn.

What about the de Havilland Venom, whose production totalled 1,143 aircraft including 742 RAF Venoms and 295 Sea Venoms?

You are of course true, I didn´t make this “rumour” up however. Still the Venom wouldn´t stand much chance against the MIG-15,NA Sabre or the Ghost powered SAAB 29 or am I wrong? I guess my question really is why did RAF choose the Sabre instead of a Bristish product?

What about the de Havilland Venom, whose production totalled 1,143 aircraft including 742 RAF Venoms and 295 Sea Venoms? :rolleyes:

I thought the original DH106 Comet was powered by 4 RR Ghosts ????