Irish family demands return of fallen hero

I read this thread, and the website dedicated to the recovery with interest.

My personal view – and this is only my opinion! – is that those men did not ‘choose’ that spot as their last resting place, and as such they should be recovered and laid to rest.

Incidentally, what happens when a missing airman is recovered?
Does his name get removed from panels of the Runnymede Memorial?

Thanks.

Jason Roberts

A daily update can be found here:

http://www.wkdankbaar.nl/

Cheers

Cees

I suspect that repatriation of the deceased from either world war in the circumstances of the time would have been next to impossible! In any case, anyone who has visited any of the war cemeteries in mainland Europe will I hope agree that they present a potent image of remembrance and a massive reminder of why we must be always guard against evil!

Regards

Eric

THE CWGC are also contracted by MOD to take care of certain sites- try searching their database for a Falklands casualty and you’ll see what I mean. From their web site:

‘Established by Royal Charter in 1917, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission pays tribute to the 1,700,000 men and women of the Commonwealth forces who died in the two world wars. It is a non-profit-making organisation that was founded by Sir Fabian Ware.’

www.cwgc.org

Stan

note that the CWGC is only responsible for WW1 & 2 casualties.

Falklands?

Moggy

For those of you interested the CWGC history is told in their book ‘The unending vigil’. In there the policy of (non) repatriation of remains is explained. I haven’t got my copy to hand but it’s along the lines that all men fell equal, all ranks have the same headstone and all are buried together. This policy ensures that families with wealth cannot secure better treatment for their relatives than those of less modest means. This was subject of much parliamentary debate and controversy at the time. The CWGC are quite firm in enforcing this rule- note that the CWGC is only responsible for WW1 & 2 casualties.

I think the post above re soldier’s families being charged for the groundsheet is very much an urban myth.

The book is available via their web site and makes a fascinating read- surprisingly upbeat and of course very moving.

They have indeed started as of this week. Together with this Hampden recovery they will recover what’s left of a Liberator. It will all take about ten weeks. I hope to visit the site soon.

Cheers

Cees

At last …home

Hopefully ………

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irish-air-ace-shot-down-in-1941-to-find-peace-at-last-1070793.html

Unfortunately, I would be fearful of politically motivated vandalism at any new gravesite in Eire. Not because of genuine nationalistic ideals, but rather because of an orgy of publicity, combined with the blind bigotry of a tiny minority carried over from the Troubles.

I am very much aware of the new, enlightened attitudes prevailing in both North and South, but there is still a hardcore of resistance to change.

I doubt very much if you have any cause for concern about desecration of any grave …A number of years ago approx 1992, but certainly in the middle of what were known as the troubles, a number of local men decided to commemorate what has been described as the worst air disaster to occur in Ireland namely the crash of RAF LB-30 AL577 .They visited the crash site and erected a simple monument .

To the best of my knowledge this has NEVER been vandalised,removed or interfered with. ..and all this in the middle of a stunch republican area….Ok maybe this memorial isnt as easily got at as a grave stone but this was well publicised in the local media and the location very well known.

In Milltown cemetary the main Catholic graveyard in Belfast, again located in a stunch republican area , there are a number of WW2 graves including Polish, Canadian, Irish and English air crew and soldiers. Here minor damage occured at some stage but the exact same damage( chipping to the edge of two/three of the headstones ) can be found on other non military graves in the cemetary.This would appear to be mindless vandalism that now occurs all too often in modern times in many ” civilisied ” societies rather than politically motivated stupidity.

Few people here,both North and South, do not recognise what would have happened to a powerless and largely undefended Ireland had Nazi germany won the war…Hitler’s plans to eradicate the population and use the country as one huge hunting range are there for all to see .

As to whether or not the remains should be moved why not leave this to the next of kin..He was their relative after all.

Unfortunately, I would be fearful of politically motivated vandalism at any new gravesite in Eire. Not because of genuine nationalistic ideals, but rather because of an orgy of publicity, combined with the blind bigotry of a tiny minority carried over from the Troubles.

I am very much aware of the new, enlightened attitudes prevailing in both North and South, but there is still a hardcore of resistance to change.

would you support or oppose a similar move in your home town, especially at this remove from WWII?

I should think any of us would want a loved one lost in war to be brought home. Folks lost in Iraq are brought home, why shouldn’t Mr Keogh be?

Things were a bit different during WWII, I know that soldiers killed in action were buried in their ground-sheets and the cost of the ground-sheet deducted from the soldiers owed pay – or charged to the next of kin.

Things are better now, Aren’t they?

Sgt J E Kehoe

For some time now I have been trying to find info re Sgt J E Kehoe. The information on this site is helpful

Interested in the fact that this Hampden had two crew apparently designated as pilots. I know that the ‘Flying Coffin’ was not wide enough to allow the usual side-by-side pilot/co-pilot seating as seen in other bombers, building the old Airfix kit demonstrated that, so was Sgt D’Arcy more likely to have been the navigator or radio operator and trained to take over from the pilot in an emergency, such as if the pilot was injured – not that there would have been much chance (or room) for a swap over under those circumstances, I’d imagine…

Flood

Here is a newsclip in English. BW Roger

Hi Roger S again,
After a couple attempts I succeeded in obtaining access. I now understand a lot more. Many thanks again.
Tony K

Hi Roger S,
Many thanks for your reply. I was not able to access any details of the Hampden on that website ,probably something I am doing incorrectly or language problem?
Best regards
Tony K

Hi Tony,

The remains of the machine are buried in soft ground

Most of the story can be found on the site of D.A.R.E. (Dutch Aircraft Research & Excavation).This organisation is involved in the whole project

www.dare40-45.nl

Under Latest News paper clips and pics can be read/seen.

The story is a complicated one as municipal politics (and we all know how politicians can make things “easier”) are involved, for the moment it is better not to say too much.Two of the paper clips are in English, and after reading that, you’ll understand.

BW Roger

Hello HP57,
Can you confirm that it crashed into the Ijsselmeer or on swamp land and sank?
Roger S could you explain please ” the complete story is however, a complex one” ?
I am very interested being Irish, in Irishmen/Irishwomen lost serving with the RAF.
Regards to you both.
Tony K

Right, a little digging and from the Bomber Command losses 1941 by WR Chorley we get;

November 8/1941
49 Squadron Hampden I P1206 EA-K
Op: Intruder

Took off 1714 Scampton on an intruder sortie in the Bocholt area. Shot down by a night fighter and crashed at 2107 into the Ijsselmeer. Both pilots are buried in Bergen general cemetery: their crew have no known graves.

W/O C A Saunders DFM +
Sgt. J M D’Arcy +
Sgt. S G Mullenger +
Sgt. J E Kehoe +

MULLENGER, STANLEY GORDON
Initials: S G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 1251152
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 49.
Cemetery: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

SAUNDERS, CHRISTOPHER ARTHUR
Initials: C A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Warrant Officer (Pilot)
Regiment: Royal Air Force
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Age: 28
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 562617
Awards: DFM
Additional information: Son of Henry Robert and Gertrude Saunders; husband of Frances Evelyn Saunders, of Morden, Surrey.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot 1. Row E. Grave 27.
Cemetery: BERGEN GENERAL CEMETERY

D’ARCY, JAMES MARCUS
Initials: J M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (Pilot)
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Age: 26
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 1288762
Additional information: Son of M. H. and Maude D’Arcy, of Halkyn, Flintshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot 1. Row E. Grave 28.
Cemetery: BERGEN GENERAL CEMETERY

KEHOE, JOHN EDWARD
Initials: J E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment: Royal Air Force
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 551389
Additional information: Son of Edward and Ellen Kehoe, of New Ross, Co. Wexford, Republic of Ireland.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 46.
Cemetery: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

Although the family are adamant that they were shown a wooden cross marking the spot where the plane crashed and that that is on the land of a Mr.Schilder and not in a river, an alternative version has it sinking deep into marshy ground.

You guessed it

Cheers

Cees

Right, a little digging and from the Bomber Command losses 1941 by WR Chorley we get;

November 8/1941
49 Squadron Hampden I P1206 EA-K
Op: Intruder

Took off 1714 Scampton on an intruder sortie in the Bocholt area. Shot down by a night fighter and crashed at 2107 into the Ijsselmeer. Both pilots are buried in Bergen general cemetery: their crew have no known graves.

W/O C A Saunders DFM +
Sgt. J M D’Arcy +
Sgt. S G Mullenger +
Sgt. J E Kehoe +

MULLENGER, STANLEY GORDON
Initials: S G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 1251152
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 49.
Cemetery: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

SAUNDERS, CHRISTOPHER ARTHUR
Initials: C A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Warrant Officer (Pilot)
Regiment: Royal Air Force
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Age: 28
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 562617
Awards: DFM
Additional information: Son of Henry Robert and Gertrude Saunders; husband of Frances Evelyn Saunders, of Morden, Surrey.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot 1. Row E. Grave 27.
Cemetery: BERGEN GENERAL CEMETERY

D’ARCY, JAMES MARCUS
Initials: J M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (Pilot)
Regiment: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Age: 26
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 1288762
Additional information: Son of M. H. and Maude D’Arcy, of Halkyn, Flintshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot 1. Row E. Grave 28.
Cemetery: BERGEN GENERAL CEMETERY

KEHOE, JOHN EDWARD
Initials: J E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment: Royal Air Force
Unit Text: 49 Sqdn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 08/11/1941
Service No: 551389
Additional information: Son of Edward and Ellen Kehoe, of New Ross, Co. Wexford, Republic of Ireland.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 46.
Cemetery: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

Although the family are adamant that they were shown a wooden cross marking the spot where the plane crashed and that that is on the land of a Mr.Schilder and not in a river, an alternative version has it sinking deep into marshy ground.