Blackpool Vulcan – the final chapter?

“Tow it” was a figure of speach, I imagine from previous discussions that a considerable amount of dismantling of the a/c and roadside furniture would be required to get it from it’s current resting place to the oggin. I was just exploring all avenues of possible fates other than a good trampling over by a JCB. I imagine that a considerable amount of detoxification of the airframe, i.e. removal of all noxious fluids & other enviromentally unfriendly materials would be required before bestowing such a fate on it.

Shorty,

The nosewheel leg is already in two pieces, held together by a clamp. I don’t think you would tow her far! The main u/c units are also buried as well… 😉

tow it…? are you balmy!

XL391, Tow it out to sea & sink it as a diving attraction. It could generate income for the local diving industry & let divers play at “Thunderball”.

As for Concorde, the world would be a sadder place with out. Don’t forget the politics involved in shooting it down commercially at the beginning with noise restrictions etc.

Unsure, I imagine you would have to hit it with some bloody force to break that…

What happened to duxfords vulcan? Accidental or deliberate vandalism??

Most – but not all of 391’s bit have been salvaged. There is yet the bomb bay to access and buy the time relay units etc that exist there.
A few of the Vulcan groups have approched the owner over the past number of years but stummbled upon the price – IE – phone up the owner, ” Yeah you can have that bit for £20″, drive 200 milles to get and find out its £200.

As for the DUX Vulcan bomb bay window – just get a local double glazing company to make an subsitute. That what I did when I need new windows for one of my Vulcs.
Joe Public would not know the difference. Easy pz.

As for £50 to see XH558…………………

XL391 – I cannot see why the CAA would not allow people to see her being rebuilt. The control of access to her is in the hands of the company rebuilding her . A great number of aircraft at Duxford are under rebuild and whilst there are measures taken to control the materials used and the standards of work carried out – access to actually view an aircraft isn’t a problem.
I believe for a crisp £50 pound note you can view her progress – I don’t know whether that is a CAA approved £50 pound note or a bog standard Bank of England example!

You’re right, there is no reason why the CAA wouldn’t allow it by the look of it. I can’t see any reason at all, but this way raises money…. 😮

XL391 – I cannot see why the CAA would not allow people to see her being rebuilt. The control of access to her is in the hands of the company rebuilding her . A great number of aircraft at Duxford are under rebuild and whilst there are measures taken to control the materials used and the standards of work carried out – access to actually view an aircraft isn’t a problem.
I believe for a crisp £50 pound note you can view her progress – I don’t know whether that is a CAA approved £50 pound note or a bog standard Bank of England example!

XL391.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Concorde appears to me nothing more than a twisted eyesore.

You should’ve gone to Specsavers!

😉

Kev35

I don’t recall that I said YOU wanted her scrapped. I said, in general, that all we talk about is the negative aspects of her return to flight, or her non return. VTTS did say she would be scrapped if money could not be found, which when you think of the cost of re-assembley, probably would have, sadly, been the only road to go down.

With regards to 391, I wasn’t asking owners or operators to put in bids. I was talking about Blackpool’s No 1 aircraft preservationist to donate bits that are of any use (which won’t be much) to various worthy causes i.e. the bombing window to 824 at Dux, which won’t happen.

And regarding Volunteers working on the aircraft, if you are that concerned, why not ask VTTS yourself? I have asked a number of question regarding the project and have always got a satisfactory reply within a day. I would imagine that it is because the CAA will not allow it, which shouldn’t really come as any surprise seeing that as it is a four engine complex nuclear jet bomber that is going to be flying around the countryside and not a wee Cessna.

XL391.

With your references to scrapping, can I just point out that it is VTTS who have threatened to scrap 558, I have never once mentioned scrapping her.

If 391 is such a source of spares to the other remaining Vulcans, why do their operators not put in a bid? It might be because they realise that the airframe and the associated expense are just not worth it.

It’s very interesting to note that no one has bothered to answer the question regarding volunteers at VTTS.

Regards,

kev35

I couldn’t see why the state of 391 would directly influence whether you would donate to better Vulcans or not. The only thing it would probably make you think is ‘my god, what an absolute s*** tip that is’. It may even encourage people to donate to the better ones…
At the end of the day, she is a gonner, beyond rescue and what really winds me up is the way he is determined to get his dough back on her one way or another. Whats the bet he isn’t taking that engine out for ya or anything else for that matter…..
If anything, she should be salvaged for the other Vulcans to benefit from her. 824 at Dux needs a new bombing window because some idiot has smashed it. I would like an Olympus 301 coffee table as well!!
It just winds me up sometimes that we only ever seem to talk about 2 Vulcans on here, one is 391, the other is 558. When its 391, its all ‘scrap it, scrap it’ and with 558 it’s ‘a waste of money, they’ll never do it’ or ‘scrap it!’ It’s boring, but, thats peoples opinions, which everyone is entitled to.

Look lets all face it XL391 is beyond help, its high time this whole farce was ended once and for all.

A Vulcan in that state is not gonna inspire confidence in non aviation members of the public who may or may not want to donate to 558 or one the taxiable Vulcan’s, if you were ignorant of the Vulcan situation full stop would you want to give money to a Vulcan project if you had seen or knew about XL391 ?

well said Kev
Bulldoze the bloody thing and do us all a favour!

XL391.

The sharpness of your debating skills is astonishing. The automatic answering of my questions with the same question in reverse adds nothing to the conversation other than to demonstrate that you are unwilling or unable to answer.

One step at a time…..

“Why not save XL391?”

Because it’s sat at Blackpool rotting for a number of years. No-one has shown much interest in doing anything for the airframe. Why? Because it’s an absolute wreck beyond saving. Money that could have been spent on XL391 could always have been donated to 558, could it not? I hear the begging bowl is out yet again.

Why scrap it sooner rather than later?

Do you really need to ask? It sits in an overgrown field surrounded by a broken fence. It is an eyesore, and although I’m no engineer, I would be concerned about the safety aspects of it sitting there. It is open to the elements and to repeated attacks by vandals.

“Why does it do no favours to the preservation movement?”

Again, just look at it. If your friend Joe Public sees that and believes that is a ‘preserved’ aircraft then what kind of reputation do you think that encourages? Why would people put their hands in their pockets to help XL391 when it has been allowed to deteriorate to this state?

Yes, XL391, I do believe there is an obsession with trying to preserve too many large triangular projects. Let’s look at Vulcans. You, being the expert, can tell me exactly how many Vulcans remain extant in the UK. I believe Wellesbourne and Southend are both taxiable, as was 558. One is undercover at Hendon and another soon to be undercover at Cosford, though how airframes will get in the building now I’m not sure. By my reckoning, that’s actually enough. There are a number of others though, aren’t there? Waddington and Duxford are two I believe.

Now take a look at Concorde. Twenty airframes built, seven ‘preserved’ in the UK. Manchester AVP, Filton, Yeovilton, Duxford, East Fortune, Brooklands (still in pieces) and the one rotting alongside the runway at LHR. Unnecessary duplication of effort? I believe so.

David Burke asked if Concorde vastly changed the shape of air travel and came up with the answer – No!

Your response to that…. “No?? Supersonic Air Travel for Joe Public?” is a little ludicrous. If Concorde vastly changed the shape of air transport, please answer the following questions….

1. Why were British Airways and Air France so quick to give up on the airframe? If they had believed it was such a success story they would have seriously challenged the decision to ground the type.

2. Same with Airbus Industrie. Why not offer further long term support of the aircraft if it was a success?

3. Why is there no supersonic successor? Or even the likelihood of one in the next twenty years?

4. If a transatlantic return on Concorde was available to ‘Joe Public’ at between £3,000 and £5,000, how many trips did you make on her? How many families could afford to go to NY at a cost of say, £10,000 a time?

“Maybe it’s because they are an important part of this countrys history. And they’re bloody beautiful to look at as well.”

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The Vulcan looked purposeful and sometimes graceful, to my eyes, never beautiful. Concorde appears to me nothing more than a twisted eyesore. As to their import in the Country’s history? It’s subjective. The Vulcan was no more important than the Victor or the Valiant or even the Canberra. Concorde is a footnote in the History of Aviation. We gambled on Concorde and it failed. Boeing succeeded with affordable subsonic air transport.

“I suppose you’d just scrap them all?? I suppose you are a member of Vulcan to the Floor as well?”

Don’t be silly. I would keep some, others I would scrap if it was necessary because of the way airframes deteriorate when stored outside over long periods of time. Be they Vulcan or Concorde.

As for ‘558, I think it’s supporters are having their gullibility preyed upon. The supporters and volunteers have worked wonders with 558. But after all your time and effort, yet more money is being demanded. For God’s sake, she’s been bought for the Nation but you have to pay £50 to see her now. Can anyone confirm that volunteer labour on 558 is still allowed, or are Marshalls engineers being paid to do the work previously carried out by volunteers?

I do have reservations already clearly expressed regarding the future of airshows should an accident befall 558 if it ever flies.

Try and back up your arguments XL391, it makes things much more interesting.

Regards,

kev35

Yeah, she certainly wasn’t cheap….. 😉

What members of ‘joe public’ actually used the New York – London service ? I cannot see how the use of a vastly expensive aircraft paid for by the taxpayer and used to get people across the Atlantic actually impacted the lives of citizens who couldn’t afford several thousands of pounds for the privledge. Seems to me like expensive transport for the ‘few’ paid for by the masses!

XL391 – The Concorde is an interesting part of our history – but ‘important’ maybe not .Certainly vastly expensive and nice to look at – but did it vastly change the shape of air transport – no!

No?? :confused: Supersonic Air Travel for Joe Public?

XL391 – The Concorde is an interesting part of our history – but ‘important’ maybe not .Certainly vastly expensive and nice to look at – but did it vastly change the shape of air transport – no! As for ‘preserving’ Vulcan’s – the machines outside are
in various states ranging from poor to very good. What is clear is that not all will survive in the long term and the funds to preserve them inside are unlikely to appear . So much as they are nice to look at – enjoy the view now because it won’t be the
same in twenty years time.