RAF Middle East in the 1920s and 1930s

Great thread here, just stumbled across it while searching for anything on 84 Sqn middle east memories. My Grandad, Corporal Ronald Beeny, served with 84 Sqn from about ’49-51 I believe before coming off Sqns, and I was wondering if anyone on here either served or has a family member who served at the same time? Grandad was an electrician I believe and I have several photos of him working on Brigands and Harvards at Habbaniya.

I’d love to see any photos or memories from that time.

same story, diffrent person.

NB. This is an old thread, BR

Hi Steve.

I was browsing the internet for information about fokker F-VII planes. I have a similar story as you have. I also saved a bunch of interresting pictures, letters, and travelstory and much more which are made between 1925 and 1932.

The pictures you write about are not visible. Can i get those by mail?

Please drop me a line, maybe we can share some information.

Kind regards from the Netherlands,

Jur.

Shackleton Photographs

Can’t offer more Pioneers just yet (I haven’t scanned them so far), but thanks for those lovely examples Albert.

How about these instead?:

Shackleton MR.1As of 220 Squadron St.Eval during a goodwill tour to Ceylon in February 1952 (2 shots)
Brigand cockpit, 84 Squadron Seletar 1951
Brigand RH823 84 Squadron, Seletar 1951 (2 shots)
Brigand RH828 84 Squadron, Seletar 9 November 1950 (3 shots)
Spitfire 24 PK683 “gate guarding” at Changi (2 shots). I know this aircraft has figured elsewhere recently, but not in colour (credit to Geoff Mann)

Steve,
It was fantastic to find the photos of the shacks.
I served in the RAF during the early 1950s and have fond memories of Shackleton Mk1 first with 120 then with 220 sqadrons.
I flew to Ceylon with 220 Sqn.
I have picked up a four excellent photos including the two you posted.
I was in ‘Oboe’ which was not with the planes shown in picsb becuase we had engin troub le and reurned to Aden for repairs.
Where can I find information about the sqns. and photos of Mk1A Shacks?
Bob ‘Juno’ Georgeson

Mark,

I think you have it. Well done, and many thanks.

Regards, Steve

I have just noticed the two pictures both seem to show the same triangular area of “unpainted” lower cowl on the centre engine? again supporting the view this is VH-UMG “Southern Star” in both pictures?

regards

Mark P

grrrrrrrr gremlins strike again, I named the link “VH-UMI” (Southern Moon) when its clearly “VH-UMG” the “Southern Star”

regards

Mark P

Steve,

This is the ANA owned Avro Ten, “Southern Star”, which I believe is the “VH-” registered aircraft in your picture.

Avro Ten “Southern Star” VH-UMI

regards

Mark P

Mark,

Having looked closely at the original print last night, I am pretty sure that VH appears under the wing. The fuselage appears to be quite light in colour, with what looks like a thin, dark coloured “cheatline” and possible some dark lettering just below and behind the cockpit.

Ah.

Yes. It’s a real Junkers, though it’s history is a bit obscure, and serial no is (IIRC) not known. Trust me, it’s corrugated all right. When I saw it last, in 2003, it was in store, disassembled.

IIRC, there’s about 3 survivors worldwide, and no replicas that I know of.

James

here on the website where the Farman Fuselage is??

regards

Mark P

There’s a Farman fuselage (looks like a Pullman carrage) at Le Bourget:

Quote:
FARMAN F-60 GOLIATH
Henry FARMAN (1874-1958)
1919 Dim : 28 m x L 15.10 m, poids : 4.500 kg INV : 45
Le Goliath est le premier avion de transport civil français. Dérivé du bombardier F.50 devenu inutile avec la fin des hostilités, le F-60 inaugure dès 1919, la première ligne aérienne en reliant Paris à Londres, puis Bruxelles et à Casablanca sans escale. L’année suivante, il est utilisé par de nombreuses compagnies aériennes. Le musée de l’Air et de l’Espace possède le seul fuselage encore existant.

From their overdesigned website
here

Great shots, thanks a lot for sharing.
__________________
James K

MAE

?!?
Where?

JDK,

A question for you? is the Junkers F13 at MAE as shoen on their website real, or an FSM, it doesnt appear to have corrugate skins??

regards

Mark P

correction, Southern Sun crashed at Alor Star flown by Scotty Allen and was replaced by Southern Star flown by Kingsford Smith to pick up the mail from Southern Sun and complete the Aust to England and return flight on the air mail flight, I believe this picture is therefore Southen Star!! as stated in my first reply.

(This then was the longest Commercial flight then undertaken to that time in the world)

(too many australian/ANA Avro Tens lol!!)

regards

Mark P

The dark painted engine cowl, wing tip (top) mounted navigation light, the fixed entrance ladder on the left hand side rear fuselage, silver wing, lack of horizontal fuselage/engine struts all rule out Southern Cross and Faith in Australia and point to this being VH-UNA Avro Ten Southern Sun on its All Australian airmail flight Aust-Uk or return UK-Aust in November 1931. (detailed photo shown on page 75 “Faith in Australia” Ellen Rogers – Child & Associates ISBN 086 777 380 7 published 1987.)

When my “other” pc comes back from the shop I will scan and post that and other pics to support such an opinion?

If it is the Southern Sun 5 rows of “white printed writing” may be existing under the row of windows seen on the right hand side but this angle and scan cannot distinguish if any such writing exists??

also a large “VH-” would exist under the RH wing with the “V” in the vicinity of the Aileron cable horn seen in the picture, again this scan doesnt seem to clarify its existance??
over to you Steve to see what the original picture might show to you?? under magnifying glass?? etc??

regards

Mark P

JDK and Mr Pilkington,

Thank you for your thoughts. I have tried enlarging that section of the photograph in case it helps.

JDK & Mr Bond,

Not wanting to be a presumptuous colonial? but I wonder if the 3 engined “Fokker” in the back of the Short Scylla G-ACJK of Imperial Airways might possibly be Australian.

It may be either the “Southern Cross” flown by Kingsford Smith in May 1931 on Experimental mail run Aust -to UK transferring the mail at Akyab to the Imperial Airwas “city of Karachi” (is that G-ACJK?).

It may be the “Southern Cross” flown by Kingsford Smith in 1929 on its “First Round the Globe” flight via India to England, Europe and later back to the USA, photographed in the company of the Imperial Airways aircraft?

It may be ANA’s Avro Ten (Licenced built Fokker) Southern Star flown by Kingsford Smith on the first all Australian mail run to UK and back (via India) in December 1931, perhaps photographed in the company of the Imperial Airways aircraft?

It may be the former ANA Avro Ten Southern Moon, rebuilt as “Faith in Australia” and flown by Charles Ulm in the June 1933 to England via Rangoon and Calcutta , or on its return flight in October 1933 as a further mail prooving flight.

The Silver wing and dark (blue??) Fuselage would tend to rule out the “Faith in Australia”, the lack of horizontal cross supports between the fuselage and engine narcelle would appear to rule out the Southern Cross, so my estimate is that this is most likely to be the Avro Ten Southern Star travelling through the far/middle east?? on its December 1931 Australia- UK- Australia flight??

regards

Mark Pilkington

Hi All,
I’ve just been looking at Fokkers for someone else. If the Fokker in the pic is British (a big assumption, and it’s quite possible it’s someone else’s), it’s not G-EBTS ‘Princess Xenia’, later ‘The Spider’ which passed that way, as that was a Fokker F-VII with one engine, and the pic is of a tri-motor.

The Trimotor Fokkers were the F-VIIA/3m and there were three UK registered ones – G-EBPV, later H-NADS and I-BBEC, G-EBYI, previously H-NAEK, which was damaged beyond repair near Mongalla, Sudan, in August 1929; thus the most likely of the three, and finally G-EBJZ, also H-NAEL.

The Fokker F-VIIB/3m was like the ‘A’ but with an extended span. Anyone prepared to punt on the pic being an ‘A’ or a ‘B’? G- reg ‘B’s areG-AADZ/PH-AGP/I-UEBI; G-AATG/PH-AGW.

There’s no great reason to assume it’s a UK aircraft, but you’ve got to start somewhere! 😀

Most interesting Mr Bond.

Goe’s nicely with the RAF 1935 film, I just watched again!!!

Thank you so muchly 007

There’s still interest… 😉

Dear Mr Moderator,

A couple of people have suggested combining these two threads under a generic “RAF Overseas” heading. If there is still interested in keeping this going (Gibraltar in the early 1950s could be next), can we please do so?

Thanks

Steve