Remembrance and History.

I have always tried to figure out why I am particularly interested in WWII and not so much any other war, even though in a lot of respects the Korean war was very similar…WWII just holds my attention for some unfathomable reason, and I have to admit that even then it’s really the machines of that time period-the Battleships, the Carriers, the planes, and to a lesser extent the tanks and other bits of kit, but I never really found myself interested in the ‘foot soldier’ aspect of it, and I guess I have a hard time justifying that to myself, because they did just as much as any machine or plane or boat did in the war, those machines did’nt WORK without the men to operate them, but those infantry stories just never caught my interest as much as say the Battle of Savo Island or Midway or the air war over Europe and everything that happened at those and other places….I guess the best way to put it is I am interested in the TECHNOLOGY of the time…war always advances technology at a MUCH more rapid pace (unfortunately at the expense of human suffering)….WWII was a HUGE transition period, Korea was just a continuation of that in most respects, and even Vietnam, at least as far as aircraft, STILL used some of WWII’s technology (A-26’s, Skyraiders which were DESIGNED for use in WWII)….they just did’nt do it for me….I guess if I had to pick any other area of warfare that I have any interest in it would be the old sailing ships like the USS Constitution and the like…beautiful ships and a more elegant era…

Just my 2 cents…

Mark

To be honest, my main sphere of interest has always been the Second World War – my parents have memories of it (Mum’s first memory is of being bombed by the Luftwaffe in South East London, aged two), and there are remnants from that age all over East Anglia.

However, one of my other passions is beer. 🙂 Oh, and a bit of local history. 😉 One of my local pubs is named The Aviator in memory of a young RFC pilot who died when he crashed into the local church. So although it’s outside my historical sphere of interest, it’s within my local and aviation spheres.

He wasn’t on Ops, and to date the indications are that he was still in training. Stories abound that he even died after landing near to the pubs to drop a ground crew Sergeant off in time for a beer… But regardless of how and why he died, in two weeks time, 23rd March, 2Lt Kenneth Wastell will be quietly remembered on the 87th anniversary of his passing.

Thanks for the replies. It is interesting to hear peoples opinions on the matter. I realise it is outside of the ‘brief’ of an aviation forum but a lot of things on here are outside of the historic aviation bracket. It does relate back to aviation though as rembrance can include aircrews/groundcrews also and so it not so tenuous as to be completely obscure,

best regards, steve

But I think there is a huge difference between all these wars and World War Two.

WWII was a war that had to be fought to preserve life, to save the world from evil. It had a very just and noble cause, and made a huge difference to how the world itself was shaped. I don’t believe the other wars were as important. They were all political – the wars started because politicians disagreed. Even World War One. But WWII was much more, it was a struglle against tyranny, oppression, genocide, a cult regime lead by a powerful madman.

After WWI the world was not a better place, it was in fact worse than bfore the war in many ways. It never proved anything. After the other wars I mentioned I doubt it would have mattered much to the rest of the world if certain coutries had won or lost. I mean the Commies won the Vietnam war, but we are no better or worse off for it, so it was futile. Korea is in almost as much mess now as it was in the 1950’s. The Gulf War made things worse.

Dave
I think you might be taking a slightly simplistic view. The men of 1914 thought that they were going to fight tyranny too.
The real enemy in both wars was Prussian militarism, sadly it took two wars to crush it (three if you count the war of 1870).
In the end it really took two non-european countries (Russia and America) to remove it’s cancerous stain from Europe.
We do have different perceptions in Western Europe (and the Commonwealth) about the two world wars and somehow feel that the first one was worse in some way than the second.
Actually WW2 was far worse than WW1–it’s just that in the west we didn’t tend to see the worst excesses of it–thankfully. That went on in Eastern Europe.
We better stop here as we’re way outside the ‘brief’ of an historic aviation forum.
Cheers
Andy

This is an interesting question. For me, living in New Zealand, even with a strong interest in military history, I have found that I didn’t get to know much about the First World War at all growing up. Every Kiwi gets to hear about and know the story of Gallipoli, that is a story of national pride, national mourning, and nationhood in itself for us. Our annual national day of Remembrance focuses around that, and predates Remembrance Day in November.

But other than that, we never see much on WWI, few films, few books to speak of. It was a long time before I learnedthe New Zealanders also fought on other fronts such as France and Belgium, and in Palestine, etc. I also learned that Gallipoli was not our first battle in WWI as everyone thinks – in 1914 New Zealand successfully invaded and captured Samoa from the Germans. We still ‘own’ it today. And in the past five years, thanks to the wonderful Armistace Day commemorations we’ve been having here in Cambridge each year since 2001, I have learned about NZ’s last battle, the storming of Le Quesnoy in France. In that the British were planning to bombard the town, but a Kiwi commander, Curly Blythe, decided his men could scale the walls of the town and take it without destroying the medieval structures. They did, and today the people of that town remain ever grateful. Cambridge, my town, is twinned with Le Quesnoy and every Kiwi who visits is apparently even today given royal treatment there.

I have a great respect for the men and women who fought in WWI. They do need to be remembered. The same goes for our soldiers, sailors and airmen who risked and lost their lives in places since like Korea, Vietnam, Borneo, Malaya, the Gulf War etc. But I think there is a huge difference between all these wars and World War Two.

WWII was a war that had to be fought to preserve life, to save the world from evil. It had a very just and noble cause, and made a huge difference to how the world itself was shaped. I don’t believe the other wars were as important. They were all political – the wars started because politicians disagreed. Even World War One. But WWII was much more, it was a struglle against tyranny, oppression, genocide, a cult regime lead by a powerful madman.

After WWI the world was not a better place, it was in fact worse than bfore the war in many ways. It never proved anything. After the other wars I mentioned I doubt it would have mattered much to the rest of the world if certain coutries had won or lost. I mean the Commies won the Vietnam war, but we are no better or worse off for it, so it was futile. Korea is in almost as much mess now as it was in the 1950’s. The Gulf War made things worse.

But WWII was a war that clearly the good guys won, for good reasons. That is why it is so revered I feel. And yes, not only in Britain but across the world it was a national event of a war. Even here in NZ the war was felt by every person. My research into Cambridge’s war shows that almost every man and woman of this town was somehow involved in the war effort. If they were not in the Army, WAAC, RAF, RNZAF, WAAF, Navy or WRENs, they were at home involved in war production like farming, and also members of the likes of WVS, VADs, WWSC, Home Gaurd, EPS, Red Cross, Air Force Relations and the many other voluntary but vital organisations that shaped the course of the war.

Long may we remember them all, no matter what they did and no matter which war. I just wonder though sometimes whether the world that the WWII chaps fought to preserve, the better place they gave us, has not been eroded and changed so much that they would probably have been quite horrified if they’d known that this is what they were fighting for.

The Second World War, here in England, was a national event, as it were. The entire country was involved, a large part of it was frontline. All my friends at school had Grandfathers with medals. Etc.

Yes, I still revere the men of the first war. Used to know one in fact. He might have had a VC too – it was him or another chap. The other chap got it. So I recall, anyway. But it is not of my main line of interest, so I concentrate elsewhere. It’s like Pacific theatre, Bomber Command, and so on – not something I think about as I am specialised in one area only.

Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori.

Steve
The Great War means just as much to me as The Second World War.
Members of my family died in both and Prussian militarism was as dangerous an animal in 1914 as it was in 1939.

As far as conflict of earlier times go, it’s difficult as time goes by to see them as people and visualise their world.

However if you asked me if the sailors of Nelson’s fleet or the English sailors who fought the Armada made a greater or lesser sacrifice I’d say it was the same.
Cheers
Andy

Personally, the Second World War holds huge interest for me for several reasons.

Firstly, it’s the memories of an old man who loved opposite me whof found out i liked aeroplanes at a very early age and fostered that interest. He was an ‘erk’ with 234 Squadron during the Battle of Britain and his stories fascinated me. I used to sit on the floor at his feet and listen in rapt attention.

Secondly, the preponderance of Second World War films when I was young. Including the Battle of Britain.

Thirdly, linked to my first point, the accessibilty of those involved. Old Bill up the road, gruff old man, no time for kids, miserable really. Yet he marched to the Cenotaph on Rememberance Day as smart as he could be. A red beret makes an impression on a six year old, as did overhearing my Dad talking to him about Arnhem one day.

What the war was about. That is of paramount importance. It wasn’t a war of conquest, but one of liberation. The Zulu wars, the Afghan wars, our Colonial post was largely about conquest and exploitation. The Second World War was different. It shaped my world more than any other conflict in history. I feel I owe a huge debt of gratitude to those of all Nations who fought to oppose the tyranny of Nazism.

I can’t say the same to the same extent about any other time in history.

I hope the link is never severed through the Act of Rememberance. Most of us on here don’t only offer a silent prayer of thanks on the 11th of November. We do it every day. You only have to look at Mark Crame and what he has achieved, or Steve Young with what he is doing for an airman of the Great War, or Geoff and the Shoreham Museum.

Regards,

kev35