About the Spitfire crowbar

True, but I have certainly not seen crowbars in post-war photos. I don’t know why, but it is a fact.

Well, at a certain age one should not trust one’s memory… I have checked my photos and in fact the crowbar is present in some Spitfires photographed after the war. Still it puzzles me why it was missing in only a small percentage of wartime Spitfires, but in majority of the post-war ones. Relaxed discipline after war’s end resulting in more items missing in general? Or were they replaced quickly in wartime?

What you have to realise is, on some Mks, the crowbar is not fitted to the door, it is positioned below the door just aft of the trim control wheels. The Mk6 is a good example.

Did Mk VI have a cockpit door?

Were they not desirable during the war? Are you suggesting that the crowbars cannot be seen in cockpit door photos because pilots removed them to prevent stealing?

Voy Tech,

Exactly that, but just a theory. I know there was a problem with the cockpit clocks

Make the pilot ‘sign for it’ and he will carry it with him.

Several of the crowbars that have come my way over the years came from groundcrew tool boxes. 🙂

Mark

True, that’s what has puzzled me. Of course you can find wartime photos of Spitfires without the crowbar, but, from what I have seen, they are a minority. On the other hand I don’t recall seeing the crowbar in the cockpit door on any post-war photos. In many Mk XVIs of no. 131 (Polish) Wing in Germany during 1945-1946 a map holder-type thing was fitted in the door, so clearly the crowbars were not used at all.

What you have to realise is, on some Mks, the crowbar is not fitted to the door, it is positioned below the door just aft of the trim control wheels. The Mk6 is a good example.

I can’t see why you can’t have the map holder and the crowbar.

Mark,
You can have both, but I think that it would be difficult to use the map holder if the crowbar is in place. I will check my photos and possibly post some here tomorrow.

The crowbar is to assist the pilot to get out of the aircraft in the event of an accident that will prevent the canopy sliding back.

Accidents are not limited to operational or wartime conditions.

True, but I have certainly not seen crowbars in post-war photos. I don’t know why, but it is a fact.

It may well be that because the crowbar is ‘desirable’ and detachable, a local order may make the pilot responsible for it.

Were they not desirable during the war? Are you suggesting that the crowbars cannot be seen in cockpit door photos because pilots removed them to prevent stealing?

True, that’s what has puzzled me. Of course you can find wartime photos of Spitfires without the crowbar, but, from what I have seen, they are a minority. On the other hand I don’t recall seeing the crowbar in the cockpit door on any post-war photos. In many Mk XVIs of no. 131 (Polish) Wing in Germany during 1945-1946 a map holder-type thing was fitted in the door, so clearly the crowbars were not used at all.

Voy Tech,

I can’t see why you can’t have the map holder and the crowbar.

The crowbar is to assist the pilot to get out of the aircraft in the event of an accident that will prevent the canopy sliding back.

Accidents are not limited to operational or wartime conditions.

It may well be that because the crowbar is ‘desirable’ and detachable, a local order may make the pilot responsible for it. Those very nice cockpit wind up clocks, that we cherish today, were similar. The latter are usually airbrushed out of the Pilot’s Notes, you will perhaps have noted.

Mark

in the book “spitfire into battle” by Duncan Smith u can see at least two pics of operational spits without it.. Anyway I dont think that the end of the war is a justification for the removal of the bars. U can always have to belly land your spit, even in peace time..

True, that’s what has puzzled me. Of course you can find wartime photos of Spitfires without the crowbar, but, from what I have seen, they are a minority. On the other hand I don’t recall seeing the crowbar in the cockpit door on any post-war photos. In many Mk XVIs of no. 131 (Polish) Wing in Germany during 1945-1946 a map holder-type thing was fitted in the door, so clearly the crowbars were not used at all.

in the book “spitfire into battle” by Duncan Smith u can see at least two pics of operational spits without it.. Anyway I dont think that the end of the war is a justification for the removal of the bars. U can always have to belly land your spit, even in peace time..

Alex

…that it was considered primarily as the pilot’s side arm, no longer required when the war was over.

Voy Tech,

More like engineers ‘pri-bar’ souvenir for the tool box I suspect.

Mark

Fuji, not quite.
Pilot’s Notes for several Spitfire mark numbers (certainly Mk II and Mk VI, and some editions of Mk IX) mention the use of the crowbar for removing the canopy if it jams during jettisonning. Several Pilot’s Notes (some editions of Mk IX, and some Griffon variants) also mention using the crowbar in the situation you mentioned. I don’t recall any of the Pilot’s Notes actually saying that the crowbar is specifically for this or that. It is just mentioned in relevant parts of the notes as a possible tool (referring to the use you mentioned it is invariably said that the pipe has to be broken “by hand or using the crowbar”, or something to that tune). Some Pilot’s Notes simply list the crowbar as one of the “emergency systems” without any reference to its actual use.
Coming back to the original question, it is noteworthy that vast majority of wartime Spitfire photos that I have seen, where the inside of the door is shown, show the crowbar in place. And vast majority of post-war photos (starting in the spring/summer 1945) show that the crowbar isn’t there. This would indicate that either a certain modification introduced at the time made it redundant, or (:)) that it was considered primarily as the pilot’s side arm, no longer required when the war was over.

That was the only use mentioned. Cannot remember which Spitfire pilots notes mentioned it but will try to find out.

uh, this is great! Are u sure it is not just a secondary use?

Alex

Spitfire pilots notes!

this is completely new to me? 🙂
where did u take the info?
Odd indeed!

Alex

The Spitfire crowbar is for breaking the pipe coming from the emergency blow down bottle in the situation where the bottle has been activated with the gear selected up. The air would activate the jack shuttle valves, allowing air to the downside of the u/c jack forcing the strut against the uplocks which would make it impossible to move the gear selector. The only way to get the gear down is to release the air holding the leg against the uplocks, hence the crowbar. Strange but true.
How many Spit drivers know that?

mike, ol’ chap, give him a break, or we’ll start again! 😀
Well chaps, I had the chance to seat in a Spit and I guess that considering the materials and the few room in there it maybe could be useful. I guess it was meant to be used after a belly landing anyway, if the fuselage deformed u might need something to force the darn canopy to open or to break the plexiglas. Still we couldnt find a reason for the lack of them in some wartime cockpits..

Alex

Just the sort of thing you need when you’re hurtling towards the ground at 300m.p.h.
S’pose it would take your mind of things for a few seconds.

I used to have a couple of original crowbars – until I got an offer I could’nt refuse 😉 I have to say I feel they were more of a morale booster than serious escape tool – they were very light and made of hollow thin wall steel tube with solid ends, one of mine looked as though someone had tried to open a crate with it before thinking better of it. I think if I had been trapped the old one-piece escape axe would have been my preferred option!

Better chance of getting out of a Spitty than a Hunter. The Swiss bought export versions of the Hunter F4 and noted that the contract charged them for crowbars. When they quizzed Hawkers as to where these were, apparently they were told the bars were useless anyway.
The Swiss were (allegedly adamant). So HAC set up a cockpit and asked for the strongest Swiss pilot to be provided. After 1 3/4 hours all he had done was a hole about an inch! The Swiss said (allegedly) thatall very well, but weve paid for them so we want them!!

To my knowledge, only F1 & F2 aircraft carried them. Hence I have one in my F1 cockpit. The F4 still has the mounts (as does the F6 nose I have).

an escape axe in a spit cockpit?? I guess u couldnt even find a place for it, let alone waving it around! 😉

Alex

“Useless in an emergency?”

I used to have a couple of original crowbars – until I got an offer I could’nt refuse 😉 I have to say I feel they were more of a morale booster than serious escape tool – they were very light and made of hollow thin wall steel tube with solid ends, one of mine looked as though someone had tried to open a crate with it before thinking better of it. I think if I had been trapped the old one-piece escape axe would have been my preferred option!

The Spitfire IX MK805 in the Italian Air Force Museum has a nice replica crowbar, made by the late Aldo Marchetti in 1989. Unfortunately it is usually hidden inside the closed cockpit access panel …

I forget whether the drawings were supplied by the noted Spitfire historian Peter Arnold or whether Aldo, an accomplished artist and model builder, sketched it himself from photographs.

Veltro