CA-3/CA-11 Woomera

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105 production CA-11 Woomera’s had been ordered by the RAAF with one prototype built and 20 on the production line when the order was cancelled.

The 105 aircraft order had resulted in sub-contractors undertaking production of sub-assemblies with many of these still occasionally popping up.

Some years ago I was given a box of cad plated 04- fittings which were the blind flying hood mounting brackets, and previously I had purchased a Woomera Trim wheel found in an antique shop in Tassie.

More recently I found this twin oil cooler shutter control on ebay.

part number 11-43029

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120439959087&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com.au%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp2773.m37.l1313%26satitle%3D120439959087%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

regards

Mark Pilkington

Legend…

Danke!!!! 😀

Busted link, Q.

Try this

Woomera Pics

Just found some pics at this website for you guys.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/monsieurstyle/
😉 😀

Wombat

I don’t recall ever seeing a photo of the CA-15 and a Mustang together and certainly there isn’t one in Stewart Wilson’s book on the CA-15. (Conspiracy theorists will suggest that there isn’t a photograph of Clark Kent and Superman together either!) As for the CA-15 being a modification of the Mustang, this simply is not so. If you look at photos of the various CA-15 designs that preceded the Griffon aeroplane you will see that they look nothing like the Mustang. Indeed they display similarities to several other types as the design evolved. You will see suggestions of Thunderbolt, FW190 and even (as Wilson points out) the Westland Wyvern! It wasn’t until the unavailability of the R-2800 prompted a change to an inline engine that the CA-15 began to take on Mustang characteristics. Of course, by then it was all too late anyway. I’ve often thought that the CA-15 is as iconic to Australia as the Avro Arrow is to Canada and the TSR-2 is to Britain.

maybe it’s the woomera that should be see as australia’s tsr 2/avro arrow as like the tsr 2 the woomera had production jigs and airframes moving down the production line, but like the others politics decided that the raaf should make do with larger numbers of lesser performing airframes.
the ca 11 was the production aircraft and they were being built until the government decided that the raaf should stick with the dap beaufighter as it was already in production,even though the ca11 out performed.
most of the surviving parts come from the unfinished aircraft.
paul(not a beau hater)

WHY, Why not!

Some new formite would have missed this interesting thread!

I’m crook gotta go!

Ciao

Boomers

Thanks James…

There is an Aussie company called Domandra who produce a video/DVD using wartime footage plus the Zuccoli restoration, but there website seems u/s.

Can anyone down-under help ?

Start here.

www.boomerang-flight.com

Boomerang info anyone ?

Different CAC model i know, but can any forumites down-under point me in the direction of Boomerang material ?

Specifically, has there ever been a DVD release of the aircraft in action, and/or the airworthy restoration efforts.
Or perhaps a book similar to ‘The Whole Nine Yards’ which details the P-40 restoration ?

Cheers…….

Regarding the similarity of the two aircraft, I remember reading years ago that the CA-15 was just an Australianised modification of the P-51. When I first saw the photos of it, I could understand how that conclusion was reached. Does anyone know whether there are any photos of the two together – surely they must have stood side by side at the factory sometime during 1946 or early 47?

Wombat

I don’t recall ever seeing a photo of the CA-15 and a Mustang together and certainly there isn’t one in Stewart Wilson’s book on the CA-15. (Conspiracy theorists will suggest that there isn’t a photograph of Clark Kent and Superman together either!) As for the CA-15 being a modification of the Mustang, this simply is not so. If you look at photos of the various CA-15 designs that preceded the Griffon aeroplane you will see that they look nothing like the Mustang. Indeed they display similarities to several other types as the design evolved. You will see suggestions of Thunderbolt, FW190 and even (as Wilson points out) the Westland Wyvern! It wasn’t until the unavailability of the R-2800 prompted a change to an inline engine that the CA-15 began to take on Mustang characteristics. Of course, by then it was all too late anyway. I’ve often thought that the CA-15 is as iconic to Australia as the Avro Arrow is to Canada and the TSR-2 is to Britain.

Wombie, tried to send you an email and a pm but you don’t allow them, anyway mate, just a heads up, I posted a thread about Aussie Beaus, have a look mate and see what you can add.

Phil

Don’t get me started about the Australian Cruiser Tanks – wrong forum, but another lost opportunity for Australian manufacture stuffed up by idiots!

Regarding the Wilson Books, I entered the Aerospace Publications website and noticed that the Beaufort/Beaufighter book is no longer available. Damn, thats the one I wanted.

I’d like nothing more than to see a CA-15 (not Kangaroo, that name was never official) AND a Woomera fly side by side – wonder if they ever did? They sure would make good restoration projects.

How about the following aircraft in a fly-off to see which one was the superior performer?

CA-15
MB-5
Spiteful
P-71 Eagle

All aircraft were too late to be developed and each resembled the epitome of piston engined fighter development. Can anybody suggest some that I’ve missed, that never reached production (although I think some Spitefuls entered service, not sure)

Ron

Regarding the similarity of the two aircraft, I remember reading years ago that the CA-15 was just an Australianised modification of the P-51. When I first saw the photos of it, I could understand how that conclusion was reached. Does anyone know whether there are any photos of the two together – surely they must have stood side by side at the factory sometime during 1946 or early 47?

Regards

Wombat

Great thread guy’s.

I think OzMatt would like to help you build another Roo Too mate 😀 .

Yep pitty about the Woomy 🙁 , To late, to complicated and the prop job’s time was coming to a close, Oz industry’s have alway’s been pretty slack as well.(anyone remember our Oz tank :rolleyes: ).

Atleast CAC had a go at there own twin job, nice looking, business like appeal 🙂 .
In another place and time she may have been in the same class as some of the Yank, German, Russian, British and Japanese twin’s of that type 😉 .

Cheer’s all 😀 , Tally :dev2: Ho! :dev2: Ho! Phil :diablo: .(The Roo Rule’s :p )

Wombat and JDK

Sidney Cotton’s L-12A G-AFTL is still active in the USA and (last I heard) available for sale. Wouldn’t that make a prize exhibit at Hendon? The website of the current owners here mentions three books about Cotton, not including Jeff Watson’s LPOOB. The only volume of the three with which I am familiar is “Aviator Extraordinary” by Ralph Barker. I can recommend this book if you can find a copy. As for LPOOB, I think it’s important to remember that the book came after the TV documentary of the same name, which might explain any perceptions of disjointedness.

Stewart Wilson now has his own magazine (AERO Australia) but his “In Australian Service” series is still marketed by Aerospace Publications

As for the similarities between the CA-15 and the Mustang, it’s probably attributable to a “great minds think alike” scenario together with the fact that both designs represented the zenith of piston fighter development. When I have my big lottery win I intend to build a CA-15!

JDK

I agree that Wackett would not have wanted to dwell on failure, but it struck me as odd that he simply didn’t mention the bomber at all during his book – it just has the entry of “Bomber prototype – 2” in a small listing of WWII production output. The Boomer and the CA-15 did get some mention. The other point to remember is that a book such as his would generally only appeal to aviation afficionados, who would be interested in technical detail, as against the general public, so I would have thought that his views would have been worth airing. I certainly would have loved to read of his views of the aircraft, its development and its eventual fate.

Re Cotton books – I only know of one – “Last Plane out of Berlin”, which I read recently. Obviously, it was about him, not written by him, and I don’t know whether he wrote any of his own stuff.

LPOOB is an odd mixture – interesting in its content, but somewhat mixed up in terms of chronology. It seems to jump from one stage in Cotton’s life to another, then back, then forward again. Little difficult to follow, but an absorbing read about a fascinating man.

Whilst on the subject of books dealing with Australian aviation, do you and the other members who have joined this post collect as much literature as possible about the subject?

I have only collected three or four of Wilson’s books to date, and intend to get the Beafort/Beaufighter book as soon as I find out the printer’s new address. They used to be at Weston, ACT, but I believe they have moved. Does anybody know the new address and can you recommend any other books by Wilson in the series of RAAF service?

I also have another subject dear to my heart about CAC and you would need to have Wilson’s book on the Wirraway/Boomer/15 to know what I am referring to.

How did the CA-15 end up looking so much like the P-51 when it started out looking so unique? If you look at the early R-2800 version drawings and plans in Wilson’s book, the aircraft looks like nothing else, but with the replacement of the radial with the Griffon, the resemblance to the ’51 is amazing, particularly when you look at the wing plan, tail empennage design and radiator intake. I think that the early design took place prior to CAC taking up the ’51 license for production and it is difficult to see how they could have designed the main plane to be so similar in shape, especially when you think that the “51 planform was so distinctive.

Any ideas?

Regards

Wombat

Hi Wombat,
While I agree with you regarding the potential of the Woomera, I’d reckon that someone as politically savvy as Wackett would’nt dwell on a ‘failure’ (as the public would see it) and however clever it was it didn’t enter service – it was at the end a non event. Our (mutual 😉 ) intesrest in interesting aircraft shouldn’t cloud our judgement as to why someone choses to throw the spotlight into certain areas of his career – and not others. Seems streightforward to me.

Either way I’m looking forwards to getting my hands on the CAC and Wackett books. Any reccomendations of books on Sidney Cotton?

Cheers

JDK

I would have thought that Wackett would have been more detailed at least in describing CAC’s achievements during its formative years. Whilst the Woomera was not a success, it was a huge undertaking for such a young company and was designed to meet very stringent, and overly ambitious, specifications – in short, it tried to be too many things in one. Did anybody else, with less than three years manufacturing experience, attempt to build a twin engined aircraft as their first truly indigenous attempt, which was a dive, torpedo and level bomber, armed with four machine guns for the pilot, four remotely controlled for another crew member, with a longer range than many of its contemporaries?

The Woomera wasn’t the most attractive bomber but to look at it, the intent is obvious – to me, it had the potential to be a potent weapon.

If Wilson does manage to get enough information together, it will be a fascinating volume. Between him and Meggs, one would have to hope that a detailed and overdue history will evolve.

Regards

Wombat

Have raised the matter of the Woomera with Stewart Wilson who advises that he is continuing to accumulate material but has no immediate plans to publish it.

An Aussie Lockheed liner thread anyone?

Hi James

Is this a trick question? Have I got a deal for you. There is such a site that will be the answer to all your prayers:

www.lockheed.adastron.com

No steak knives though!

Hi Wombat,
Not read Wackett’s bio myself, but for a guess would he not focus (in a general interest historical bio) on the sucessfull rather than the technically interesting? That would make sense for the ratio or Woomera, Boomerang and Wirraway. And the Wirraway was also important as the a/c Fisherman’s Bend was set up to produce; so there’d be even more reason to cover it.

If you want to read more (here, I presume you mean) about Aussie a/c post away. After all, NZ is on the FP forum map because of Dave H’s phenomonasl posting rate. More folks are more interested and thus more comfortable with Spits and Stangs, but there’s room for everyone. It’s not like a magazine that gets full! 😉

For instance, I’m interested (and researching) the Lockheed 10 and 12, plus the 14 / Hudson. I’ve a fair amount on Canadian use, but a lot less on Aussie. An Aussie Lockheed liner thread anyone?

Cheers!