Spitfires – 57 OTU Hawarden

Not touched up, but scanned from the original large format negs and adjusted for clarity.

I’ve emailed the chap who took them to ask about nose colour, the pilot, etc etc. Maybe he’ll remember, but it was a long time ago.

Not sure about this, but does ‘212’s yellow cowling encompass the lower cowlings as well, and not just the upper and side cowlings as in Mark12’s profile?

Judging from the tonal similarity between the upper and lower cowlings, I’d say the lower panels were the same colour as the upper ones. AR213 certainly had the entire nose painted white.

I have to say I’m not convinced that the nose of AR212 was yellow. Even allowing for fading of older paint, the nose seems much brighter than the yellow on the rondel.

Not sure about this, but does ‘212’s yellow cowling encompass the lower cowlings as well, and not just the upper and side cowlings as in Mark12’s profile?

Also you’ll note that the yellow on the nose is more recently applied in the photo than the camo scheme so if there was a difference in shade between the Westland’s applied camo scheme etc and the O.T.U. applied yellow nose the yellow on the nose would seem more striking in appearance than the well used scheme which awas already applied. ‘213’s R.W.B. stripey nose was purported to have been painted using roundel colours and yellow is the colour I’d guess was on ‘212.

Tom

Webpilot and Whitleyfreak,

My guess would be that the shot was taken at Hawarden some time after July 1941. A collision with X4605 is recorded over Chester on 16 March 1942 Cat E write off and Struck Off Charge.

Czech historian, and my good friend, Zdenek Hurt included researched artwork on AR212 for his book on the Mks I-II Spitfire.

Mark

🙂 You guys are nothing short of amazing! I honestly didn’t think I’d find a photo of AR212. Mark12, do you happen to know what year the photo was taken? Snapper, your photo’s are so clear, have they been touched up?
Does anyone know which Spitfire hit AR212 or vise versa?

Cheers!

Todd

AR212 – a ‘Jumper’ and it was yellow.

Mark

Jumpers rather than bouncers, yes, indeed. Bouncers was a later term, I think.

Interesting to note a yellow nose rather than white on AR212. I defer to your knowledge, but the photo certainly does make it appear a lighter tone than that of the rondel yellow – similar to the sky tail band but lighter than the grey of the unit code. The aircraft code letter also seems to be a lighter tone. Was this yellow also?

Get knitted.

AR212 – a ‘Jumper’ and it was yellow.

AR213 – a ‘Jumper’ white with Red and Blue stripes. Ginger Lacey’s machine

Mark

Ginger Lacey’s stripy Spitfire (AR213) still exists, and will hopefully be restored in those colours when it flies again (it’s currently on a major rebuild).

Thanks Webpilot, I understand now. Now that you mention it I recall an article in Flypast about Lacey’s stripey Spitfire back in the early 1990’s.
I guess there are some really interesting colour schemes out there for modellers yet to be discovered from OTU ‘bounce’ aircraft.

Sorry to have dragged this thread a little off topic by the way Todd.

Is that a yellow nose on that Spitfire Mark?

If so, did other OTU combat-type aircraft also carry a yellow section to denote they were training aircraft? I have wondered this for some time, whether OTU aeroplanes had yellow stripes or such so they could be spotted more easily – just like ab initio trainers, etc. A mate recently told me they didn’t and that they looked just like regular frontline planes. Can anyone confirm this?

Most OTU aircraft wore the normal camo colours of the time. Generally aircraft painted like with stripes and so on were “bouncers” used by instructors to accustom the sprog pilots to the tactics of the Luftwaffe. The white nose with blue and red stripes on the aircraft used by Ginger Lacey are well recorded.

As to the photo of AR212 in this thread, the tone of the nose paint looks lighter than the yellow of the rondel, so I think it might be white rather than yellow.

Is that a yellow nose on that Spitfire Mark?

If so, did other OTU combat-type aircraft also carry a yellow section to denote they were training aircraft? I have wondered this for some time, whether OTU aeroplanes had yellow stripes or such so they could be spotted more easily – just like ab initio trainers, etc. A mate recently told me they didn’t and that they looked just like regular frontline planes. Can anyone confirm this?

A well aired shot of AR212 at 57OTU.

It is available from a copy negative held by the RAFMus.

Mark

These are the ones I have.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10956&highlight=57+otu