Flying Inverted

I believe someone flew the English Channel inverted in a Tiger Moth some years ago? That is at least 22 miles.
mmitch.

A really modern unlimited aerobatics has all symmectrical everything, and really doesn’t give a hoot whether the G is + or – .

Lift vs. Weight (or G). The inverted wing needs to be able to create enough lift to sustain the weight of the aircraft. This is why you see older aircraft, with less sophisticated airfoils, having to pitch the nose up to maintain level flight in the inverted attitude. Same goes for knife edge flight, where the fuselage is generating a small amount of lift as the thrust of the propeller is used to counteract weight and drag.

So, are we saying that with the right engine and fuel system specifically designed for flying inverted, it would be/is theoreticlly possible to fly inverted for as long as the fuel lasts (before flipping over and landing normally !! thought I’d better add this before anyone else did).

Also with the right wing…
If you have a cambered wing (most are) and/or something with washout, dihedral, possibly also with differential or Frize ailerons, all these things which make life more pleasant in positive G make it worse in negative G. The Yak, for example, does not have a symmetrical wing so its inverted stall and inverted climb are both less advantageous than the positive G equivalents.

Some wings, e.g. anything with lots of undercamber like a Tiger Moth or vintage sailplane, have the inverted characteristics of a toilet seat.

A really modern unlimited aerobatics has all symmectrical everything, and really doesn’t give a hoot whether the G is + or – .

In the NX611 feature in the current Flypast , Neil Williams flew the Lanc for HAPS and had the Zlin problem during that period , good article .

Al

That’s where I read it! D’oh! (Is there a “thick as mince” smiley?? :rolleyes: )

The answer to your question is “yes”

Thrust-Drag-Lift-Weight: The airplane doesn’t know what attitude it’s in, only that it’s flying in a fluid like environment known as the atmosphere. The balance between these four factors control our flight “envelope”.

Consider this…when flying formation, as a wingman, I use what you would consider “normal” corrections to stay in position. If a little low to the lead plane I pull back on the stick, and if a little wide I bank towards him. These small corrections, which you make constantly, are always the same, whether you are straight and level or following lead through the top of a loop inverted.

IIRC, was it not a spar that had cracked?

Dammit, I read about this very recently, too! Can’t think where or when now! 🙁

In the NX611 feature in the current Flypast , Neil Williams flew the Lanc for HAPS and had the Zlin problem during that period , good article .

Al

I would guess that theoretically, you *could* get an airframe to maintain straight and level inverted flight (fuel feed and engine systems permitting), but the main limiting factor would of course be the human element. I understand mechanical stuff far more than biological stuff though, so I won’t even begin to speculate about how long a person could function effectively under those conditions.

So, are we saying that with the right engine and fuel system specifically designed for flying inverted, it would be/is theoreticlly possible to fly inverted for as long as the fuel lasts (before flipping over and landing normally !! thought I’d better add this before anyone else did).

Are you sure this is not a version of the actual incident when Neil Williams ( aerobatic champion) had a wing on his Zlin begin to fold up. He rolled inverted and made his way back to Hullavington, where he flew at inverted circuit and approach, rolling erect on touchdown, and even cutting a furrow in the turf with the wingtip as he rolled.

IIRC, was it not a spar that had cracked?

Dammit, I read about this very recently, too! Can’t think where or when now! 🙁

Jetlag is a terrible disease, Mr. Jones. Cat got you up?
Don’t you have to be at Duxford in a few hours?

Yes, to all the above. 🙂 🙂 🙂

Jetlag is a terrible disease, Mr. Jones. Cat got you up?

Don’t you have to be at Duxford in a few hours?

All the way to the scene of the crash…

DO I detect a note of sarcasm here, Mr P??

What distances are we talking about, is there theoretically a limit as to how far a plane can fly inverted?

All the way to the scene of the crash…

What distances are we talking about, is there theoretically a limit as to how far a plane can fly inverted?

Its mainly down to the Engine and fuel system set up but i reckon in theory something like a Su26 could fly inverted as long as it can fly up right as long the pilot can handle it.

Inverted duration limits? It depends mostly on the fuel and oil arrangements for negative G. If you have a proper inverted oil system then that should run more or less indefinitely, but most aircraft with inverted fuel systems have a limietd endurance in negative G as they feed from a small inverted tank within the main fuel system. It’s usually good for a couple of minutes continuous power, and, if you use it all up, you generally have to return to positive G for several minutes for it to refill. So the POH will say something like “continuous inverted max 2 mins, aircraft must be flown erect for 5 mins before further inverted flight”.

One of Neil W’s concerns in the Zlin wing breakage episode was the short amount of time he had available for his inverted climb away and subsequent inverted circuit down to the round-out and negative G half barrel roll that he used to put her down on the ground.

If setting a negative G record you would have to modify the system a lot further than you need to complete an Unlimited aerobatic sequence, in which you are changing between positive and negative G all the time, so you never run out of inverted fuel.

What distances are we talking about, is there theoretically a limit as to how far a plane can fly inverted?

Are you sure this is not a version of the actual incident when Neil Williams ( aerobatic champion) had a wing on his Zlin begin to fold up. He rolled inverted and made his way back to Hullavington, where he flew at inverted circuit and approach, rolling erect on touchdown, and even cutting a furrow in the turf with the wingtip as he rolled.

I once heard a story about a pilot who was flying an aeobatic a/c across the channel when a wing started to fold. he flipped the a/c over and continued inverted to France, some 30 miles away, rolled upright and landed sharpish. Can’t remember names or a/c type though.

A simple answer is Yes.

Jane Oslwerer(spelling) holds the record.

Cheers Crazymainer