DB series vs Merlin

Ok any more gossip on the Merlins

I agree with Turbo 😉 , Very interesting stuff, My old war buddy Bob told me a few years back that the Germans over engineered the D.B. a bit much, Compared to the Merlin, And for Martin, Goring was not a happy chappy :p hey when the Swiss started shooting/Forcing down German planes that strayed and in some case deliberately flew over Swiss airspace, Nearly poped a valve old Herman 😡 , With the remark’s about we sold you those aircraft, How ironic German made planes shooting down German made planes :rolleyes: , The Swiss pilots seemed to be not half bad either 🙂 , Cheers lads, Tally Ho! Phil. :diablo:

” There’s nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” (Shakes,Baby)

Your welcome, its more interesting than doing my geography homework anyway!!

This is great,

thanks for all of the answers, guys !! 🙂

TNZ

That sounds reasonable. But still… thats still 98/97 that should have been fine. Sabotage is a reasonable suggestion; and no doubt contributed, but could not be the primary reason.

Obviously not all DB engines, nor all components, just one or two in every hundred or so, say?

I doubt that ALL the DB-601’s were sabotaged or they would be going down on their supply flights to the squadrons!

I’ve spoken to a well known restorer who has had a lot of experience of a number of different engines including the Merlin and DB601. He thought that the DB601 though a good engine was typically over engineered, i.e. where basic barings would suffice the Germans would fit needle bearings.

Well, my saboteurs idea sounded good to me! I just thought it could have been a possibility, having read something about Messerschmitt 262 engines being sabotaged by factory workers not so long ago (in Aeroplane I think??)

It is also commonly accepted that many of the later DB-601’s built in Germany/France were of an extremely poor quality through over-bebasement of the metals, but were so well put together that they worked well for a long while. Resulted in lots of wear and tear. But i have no information on the Merlin engine to compare this with. Sorry! Anyone else with anything to add?
Regards,
BARNOWL

saboteurs??

not necessarily – what has to be considered is

a) the difficulty to obtain the raw-material needed for the various alloys needed in aircraft and engine fabrication
b) the fact that during 1944 the life expectancy of an German fighter aircraft was set at approx 20 hours which means that also the engines didn’t have to last for hundreds of hours.

The Swiss AF received 12 Bf-109G’s during 1944 when after a Bf-110G night fighter with the latest Lichtenstein search radar variant had run out of fuel and landed at Dübendorf airfield near Zurich. The Swiss were offered 12 Gustavs for destroying the Night fighter (to make sure the allies wouldn’t get a go at it).

After delivery, many problems arose during operation of this G-6 variant (remember, we had E’s and a few D’s already in service for 5 years). Technical examination revealed that the production standard in general was rather low – at one point it was believed that we had received aircraft that didn’t pass the quality control at the factory, but this soon was proved wrong.

Fact is that the DB-605’s were not built for prolonged use, and the factories ‘used’ POW’s and convicts, plus people from conentration camps – i.e. people not properly trained for the task of building precision machinery, while the V-1650’s (Packard built Merlins) could be built with the best raw material and highly experienced personnel.

Another point is that the rôle of the Bf-109 and its DB-605’s was mainly in defence and short-range missions, with flying times of normally less than one hour per mission, while the Packard V-1650 equipped Mustangs were destined for long range escort missions of several hours in one go.
Therefore the conception of the durability of these engines was entirely different.

Martin / Swiss Mustangs

I wonder if, due to the mechanical problems had by most DB-engined ‘109 operators, whether the actual constrution might have been a factor in their problems?

One word – saboteurs??

Flug Werk in Germany who recently flew their new build FW190 have acquired some Me109s ‘which may be restored with new DB engines’ They are nothing like as easy to rebuild as Merlins. Parts for these are still being made, mostly in the USA.
See:- http://www.flugwerk.com/new/diary/diary.shtm
mmitch.

Thanks Phil, I thought so.

There are a heap of people in this forum who know a lot of either engine, so I’m hoping some good info comes out.

+:)+
Chris

Good one Turbo

Hmmm :rolleyes: , Now that’s an interesting point Chris, It will be good to see what comes out of this thread, Cheers, Tally Ho! 😉 Phil. :diablo:

“There’s nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” (Shakes, baby!)