In the US, with very few exceptions, most warbirds are registered under the “Experimental Exhibition” catagory, as these airplanes were never certified for sale to the public. There are exceptions, such as the AT-6 Texan (not the Harvard, though). The T-6 is certified in the normal catagory, just like a Cessna 172. As I understand it, prior to WW2 most manufacturers were awarded “Normal” catagory certification along with acceptance by the military. By the end of the war this process was changing, hence P-51’s are usually certified in the “Limited” catagory.
My question is what aircraft can you bring in and operate in the UK, and for how long? Can you operate an aircraft with foreign registration in the UK for more than a short visit? What modifications are allowed?
For instance, I know that John Bradshaw’s Sea Fury was purchased in the US, where it was operated under the Experimental catagory. It still has the Centaurus engine, but much of the cockpit has changed.
Any thoughts?
By: Manonthefence - 1st September 2004 at 13:42
what it does have is push button and go reliability
I’ll testify to that 😀 She goes like a rocket ship as well.
By: Taifun - 1st September 2004 at 13:02
Hi Skybolt,
In my opinion it doesn’t retore the lines of the original Argus engine and I agree with you that it doesn’t look as good as the Renault engined version. Sadly (and I hope she isn’t reading this), I think she looks ugly, especially at the front. They were never going to get the shape right when the original inverted “V” of the Argus engine would compliment the pear shaped fuselage. Now the flat 6 is mounted high meaning the pear shape needs to reverse at the firewall if you see what I mean. Sorry, poorly explained.
Anyway what it does have is push button and go reliability. I would like to try and find an original Argus for her even if it just sits in the barn until the Lycoming times out. I know of two people doing the conversion at the moment so it might be as well to sit back and see how they solve all the problems..
🙂
Taifun
By: Skybolt - 1st September 2004 at 11:17
Taifun,
The FAA have obviously mellowed a bit and softened their attitude in recent years however the Nord 1002 is a known and certificated CofA aircraft in the UK. Although yours is another matter entirely being re-engined with a US made flat 6 that does restore the Bf108’s original proportions but, IMHO, does not improve the classic elegance of the Renault straight 6 engine configuration in the Nord “Mille deux”.
Cheers, or more properly, Felicitations,
Trapper 69
:rolleyes:
By: Taifun - 1st September 2004 at 10:39
We had a trip down this path in 1998/9.
When purchased the 108 was on the “Experimental” N reg which would usually restrict it to flight within US Airspace. The FAA released the aircraft to fly in the UK (and CAA accepted it) for an initial 3 months, later extended to 6, while we applied for a UK CofA.
Both sides were great, yes lots of paperwork and a few bumps here and there but the CAA were very positive and dare I say it a pleasure to work with.
By: von Perthes - 1st September 2004 at 08:26
Steve,
You could register her in France, as F-URYC perhaps 😉
Geoff
By: srpatterson - 31st August 2004 at 22:38
Well, that’s put rather a gloom on the evening…
By: Skybolt - 31st August 2004 at 22:18
The facts are that any PtoF or experimental or “limited” category aircraft can only operate within the national airspace boundaries of the country of registry unless they are recommended for flight outside that country by their own airworthiness authority. They then have to be accepted for flight in another countries airspace by that countries CAA or equivalent. In the case of the FAA they made it crystal clear to our CAA some 15 or so years ago that the only category of aircraft they assumed oversight for outside US airspace were “air carrier” airplanes – ie: the airlines. This was not acceptable in any shape or form and was, in fact, a failure to comply with ICAO SARP’s in respect of privately owned aircraft on the N register operated in a private capacity with no commercial involvement. Nevertheless the FAA stuck to their guns pleading that they simply did not have sufficient staff to monitor the activity of non air carrier N registered aircraft. It is hard to disprove that statement when delivered by extremely highly placed FAA executives.
There it is – long may the one sided “special relationship” with out ex-colonial cousins continue.
What do you think of this “augean stable” and who is to clean it….????
Cheers,
Trapper 69
By: duxfordhawk - 31st August 2004 at 15:49
But what day is the ‘Anyone from the forum who brings Steve a bottle of beer gets a ride in the backseat’ day at Duxford going to be?
Geoff.
As if anyone else would tell you that day 😀 ,I am getting a crate in anyway just in case.
By: von Perthes - 31st August 2004 at 14:09
But what day is the ‘Anyone from the forum who brings Steve a bottle of beer gets a ride in the backseat’ day at Duxford going to be?
Geoff.
By: duxfordhawk - 31st August 2004 at 11:35
Now Geoff, that’s how rumors get started 😀
Steve
I like such Rumours i can just see her now sitting in a Legends line up or sitting on the apron at Biggin Hill(i can dream),Good luck whatever your plans are.
By: JDK - 31st August 2004 at 09:57
It’s a FLEET!
By: srpatterson - 31st August 2004 at 00:45
Now Geoff, that’s how rumors get started 😀
Steve
By: von Perthes - 30th August 2004 at 21:18
Steve,
Does this mean you’re planning on bringing ‘Southern Cross’ over sometime????
Geoff
By: David Burke - 30th August 2004 at 19:25
From memory the used to be a number of U.S registered warbirds operating in the U.K. However I believe now that to operate on the N register and on ‘experimental’ category you are limited on an agreed number of flights or attendance at a display for example on a set date.
The former Kemble based Sea Fury will be operating on a Permit to Fly
-modifications will come within the remit of a CAA inspector. Suffice to say
that changes in the cockpit will come under the relevant legislation i.e radio certificate .
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August 30, 2004 at 6:50 pm