RAF cutbacks

there is some bits worth nicking like the spitfires (parts?) at RAF stafford according to wrecks and relics there are five?

put the key back through the door

Why bother, nothing worth nickin’ now!

😉

Can the last member of the Royal Air Forces turn off the lights and put the key back through the door on the way out please ?

Madness ! absolute madness !

I knew that Mike, I just didn’t want to teach anyone to suck eggs! 😀

Maybe they should consider equipping some of the GR9s with radar, even if it was a 30/70 split. Although there is little in the way of an air threat to the UK mainland, it seems a bit premature to reduce the RN’s fleet to a 1982 style force. Even the Italians and Spanish have the radar equipped Harrier II Plus, though I understand that the Italians are the only aircraft wired for AMRAAM. With the savings from the proposed cuts and increase in budget I can’t see why this couldn’t become a reality. A mixed fleet of strike and radar equipped AD versions would potentially make the RAF/RN Harrier fleet the most effective force in the inventory.

Will JSF be worth having after they remove the wings and engine as a weight saving measure! 😀

I think it was joke! 😀 It’ fair to say Duxford has enough of it’s own housing problems at the moment without taking on more.

I don’t think there plans to retire the Sea King in the short term. With the new Merlins now coming on line there will undoubtedly be a shakedown period, but it’s a very probable that they will eventually take over eventually. It will be interesting to see a SAR version of the Merlin!

The Sea Harrier is going, that’s been on the card for a while now, but the GR7 is undergoing upgrade to GR9, and will be around until replaced by the JSF. That’s the plan, however if Gordon Brown screws up the books again, then it will be replaced by new build Sopwith Triplanes! The idea of Camels will probably be looked at, but discounted on cost grounds! 😀

My condolences to all the serving RAF staff and civvies who will lose their livelihoods through this beauracratic medling. I have been through it in the downsizing (ie killing) of the RNZAF, and it sucks big time.

I have heard from a mate who was in England earlier this year that he saw on the news that all the Harriers and Sea Kings are also being completely withdrawn from service. Is this correct?

If Blair’s government cannot balance the defence spending and need to make so many drastic cuts at once, they have surely got their priorities very wrong. The defence of your own country is much more important than the invasion of another.

One thing I have to wonder, when all these aircraft are withdrawn from RAF service, who will they sell them onto? The Iraqis need a new air force don’t they?

So is the BBMF moving its Spitfires to Duxford or was that a joke? I don’t get it if it was… :confused: If it’s not a joke, why split up the Flight? Seems very odd.

Well said David. Of course it would be nice to have what we want, however taxpapers money has to be divided between schools, hospitals, and other vital public services. We all have to ask ourselves, do we want good state education for our kids, and good hospitals for when we are ill, or 5000 tanks that we will probably never need. It could be argued that having large fleets of Challenger II tanks is a little pointlesss considering the the tank killing capability of the WAH-64D! Weapons systems today cost mega bucks, so we will never have all we want.

There hasn’t been a serious air threat to the UK for many years now, so to lose a squadron of F3’s isn’t all that bad. A couple of years back there was talk of scrapping the entire F3 force leaving no AD cover until the arrival of the Typhoon, so it could be worse! 😉

My initial response to the cuts was anger, but on reflection much of (but not all) the move makes sense. In a changing world the armed forces have to change with it, and it’s fair to say that the weapons systems of today are smarter than the platforms carrying them.

I still think we need to be careful though. The war in Iraq was over quickly due to the overwelming technological advantage of Britain and the US, however at the end of the day it’s still down to the soldier on the ground to win the peace. While Tony is slashing troop numbers on one hand, he’s busy preparing to send them to Sudan. Isn’t it time someone else sent their troops instead? To remove the RAF Regiments mobile AD capability is nothing short of madness, it’s not just airfields that benefit from their presence!

That concludes my essay! 😀

With the greatest of respect Willow whilst the guys trying the Typhoon were I am sure impressed – were they just off Tornado F.3’s ? As for bouncing F-15’s
well that is an early 1970’s design ! I should hope they could!
What the RAF should have done years ago is buy F-16’s and been happy with MLU programmes. Do we really have a serious perceived air threat which
will require the sophistication of the Typhoon ?

It seems that nothing changes…. I joined the RAF in 1990 and within a few months of joining the “Options for Change” cuts were announced. It seemed ridiculous to me then that they should be cutting defense spending in such a drastic manner and yet we were still being committed to various areas of conflict (Kuwait Iraq Bosnia Kosovo are the ones I remember). If this carries on the British Military will be nothing but a token force. As for combining forces with Europe.. can’t say I like that idea at all as it means we would not have full control of our military.

No they aren’t.

Currently stopped whilst we sort out if the JSF will ever slim down enough to fly from them.

Conceded

To get anything done you have to go to Government Ministers web address otherwise thousands of Civil Servants shove the correspondence from one department to another. Its a bit like the old saying “12 Airscrews required at RAF Pembroke Dock” by the time the 500th clerk reads the memo 12 more Sunderland AIRCREW are despatched!

Friend of mine reckons that’s how he and 999 fellow aircrew ended up in West Africa during the war !!!!

What the document says is that XI will disband in Oct 2005, and Leeming will cease Tornado flying in 2008, due to reduced requirement for Air Defence squadrons. Presumably this is when 25 replace their F3s with Typhoons (or disband as another Typhoon Squadron becomes operational and the last F3s are retired)

Therefore, can we presume that Leeming won’t become a Typhoon base?

The required 3 AD squadrons will therefore presumably be 2 Typhoon squadrons at Leuchars and one at Coningsby

I wonder where the ground attack / multirole Typhoon squadrons will be based?

Aha…thanks for that, Mike…that all makes sense now.

Yes, agreed, two Typhoon AD Squadrons at Leuchars to replace their F.3s “like-for-like” and one at Coningsby (along with the OCU) leaving Leeming free of AD assets. I suppose it would then make most sense to base the other Typhoon units there, in time.

I wonder if 6 Squadron standing-down at Coningsby in 2007 is significant with a future Typhoon unit asuming their mantle a year or two later?

Cheers

Steve

Possibly up to Canberra standard?

Moggy

Neither myself, the US Department of Defense, Typhoon OEU pilots, or Key Publishing, have ever said it was THAT good. 😀 😀

Willow

The programme was produced by Key Publishing, so, obviously, I believe every word written in it.

Good point, well made.

Obviously is fantastic. Possibly up to Canberra standard?

Moggy

Its degree of fantasy is your wishful thinking surely? Anything I’ve heard whispered is that it falls very far short of such a description.

Moggy

Well, the Farnborough programme included an article about the Typhoon OEU at Warton (17sqn) and created the impression that the service pilots are VERY impressed with it, and that they had successfully ‘bounced’ a pair of F15s over the Irish Sea.

The programme was produced by Key Publishing, so, obviously, I believe every word written in it.

Don’t YOU believe everthing published by Key? 😉

Forget JSF, once Typhoon gets on line it’ll be fantastic.

Willow

I’ve got two problems with this bit of your post.

1) It won’t be ‘online’ for at least another five years. If the F3 is anything to go by, make that 15 years.

2) Its degree of fantasy is your wishful thinking surely? Anything I’ve heard whispered is that it falls very far short of such a description.

Moggy

Just thinking (dangerous I know :rolleyes: ) but is the Typhoon (that word Hoon again :rolleyes: ) supposed to be replacing all versions of the Tornado in all roles….?
Only, with so few AD squadrons going to left after this round of cuts and pressumably only the 1 ex-Jag squadron to remain in existance (convert to Typhoon..?) with 200+ Typhoons ordered, what are they going to do with them all…… :confused:

Going to be just like after the war with new planes being delivered straight into storage from the production line, assuming that they ever manage to make that many Typhoons that actually work of course…… :rolleyes:

No, not all Tornadoes: only the F.3 ADVs…the GR.4/4A will be around for quite some time to come yet (2020+ possibly)

The plan, as of a year or so ago, was to have 4 pure air defence squadrons of Typhoon, 2 “swing-role” (ie trained & tasked for both air defence and air-to-ground) and one purely “mud moving” squadron. Add an OCU to those 7 units, presuming one OCU will cover all roles.

Have I missed something with regard to 25 Squadron at Leeming? I thought there was a post saying fast jet ops would cease there in 2008 when XI Squadron stand-down….:confused:

Steve

They didn’t say it was better than F22, just second to.

So I don’t think they’re being too unrealistic 🙂 .

Our government still hasn’t confirmed the second order for Typhoon anyway, so we may not get the whole 232 originally intended.

Willow

Forget JSF, once Typhoon gets on line it’ll be fantastic. It stated in the programme for Farnborough that even the American defence department agree that the Typhoon is second in the world only to the F22 Raptor (but with a much smaller price tag).

I think they are just being polite… 😀

Just thinking (dangerous I know :rolleyes: ) but is the Typhoon (that word Hoon again :rolleyes: ) supposed to be replacing all versions of the Tornado in all roles….?
Only, with so few AD squadrons going to left after this round of cuts and pressumably only the 1 ex-Jag squadron to remain in existance (convert to Typhoon..?) with 200+ Typhoons ordered, what are they going to do with them all…… :confused:

Going to be just like after the war with new planes being delivered straight into storage from the production line, assuming that they ever manage to make that many Typhoons that actually work of course…… :rolleyes: