Live BoB dig Channel 5 30 May 21:00

I have followed this thread with interest. I enjoyed the programme as did my family, I am looking forward to seeing the polished programme when hopefully they will give credit to the other pilots who damaged the aircraft.

Cannot wait to see the grip cleaned up either!

The fact that the moaners can moan and that I can sit here typing this is down to the bravery of the few and all allied veterans….if you know one, say thankyou for what they did.

Anything that passes interest in the Battle to later generations gets my vote.

Oh BTW, Melvyn I love your Hurricane book, it has helped me extensively!!

regards

Tony

Well having read all this I can,t wait to see the programme!!(I live in Germany and haven,t got my copy yet).Like Allan125 I was fortunate to be invited to the Spitfire dig and whatever the prog was like it was certainly enjoyable being there,and I can only echo Allan,s comments about Vic Murphy and Werner Molge,(FW 190 D9 pilot of 7/JG 26).The archeologists were also very professional,in fact they were too painstaking costing quite a lot of time.I was told at the time that the jcb stopped work as the side of the hole was threatning to collapse and it could fall in the hole.Amyway I can,t really comment further on the programme til I,ve seen it myself.Cheers,Zippymark.P.S.Regarding Vic,s comments on the FW 190,s being natural metal,it is common knowledge that some BF 109,s were finished all over in a pale blue/grey which maybe looked similar to dull bare metal? Though I,ve not heard of any Focke-Wulfs with this finish.

As an example of what Joe Public may have thought, my sister and brother-in-law have a passing interest in aircraft and they abandoned the programme halfway through.
I hadn’t thought of it previously but, sadly I fear Webpilot may be right and it did more harm than good.

I’m pleased to say we now have the grooming set back & on display again.

A little applied Googling, and here we have some information on unpainted Luftwaffe aircraft.

http://www.trains-n-planes.com/ocw/camo/camo.htm

“Near the end of the war factories delivered some Messerschmitt Me-262 and Heinkel He-162 aircraft partially or completely unpainted. Over all surfaces, the variegated grays of the bare metal was broken only by primed and puttied seams on the airframe.

As an austerity measure, manufacturers experimented with the idea of leaving the under surfaces of certain aircraft unpainted. In the autumn of 1944 the Germans produced a batch of 50 Focke-Wulf FW-190A aircraft with only steel and wooden under surfaces painted. The Germans considered this experiment a success, and this short cut soon became the standard”.

Interesting point in Vic’s account of his final action was that the German fighters (Fw 190’s) had no camouflage, just ‘aluminium cladding’. He thought that they must be newly manufactured and there was no time to paint them.

Anyone come across this before? It seems possible considering the chaotic state of the German production facilities at that time.

I’ve definitely seen photos of late production German aircraft – FW190 and Me 262, I think, in apparently bare aluminium with Balkenkreuz and Swastika applied direct to the metal. But whether that represented an operational condition or test flight condition of a factory fresh machine prior to painting, I couldn’t say.

Probably Mustangs…

Unpainted 190’s

Interesting point in Vic’s account of his final action was that the German fighters (Fw 190’s) had no camouflage, just ‘aluminium cladding’. He thought that they must be newly manufactured and there was no time to paint them.

Anyone come across this before? It seems possible considering the chaotic state of the German production facilities at that time.

I have finally managed to see the programme this afternoon – and I see what you all mean about the “bimbo” presenter (who changes from a blue to a red hat for some unknown reason) – my personal favourite moment 🙂 is about 53 minutes into the programme, when I make a surprising appearance in the background, giving a secret sign to the forum members (which you all missed !!!) 🙂 – The producer advised me today “I have suggested that we make a short documentary on Vic and his plane for Discovery Wings and maybe Australia – using the material we already have plus a bit more” The bit more will probably me being interviewed about the jumper I was wearing as it was too bright !! 😀 Let’s wait and see what transpires. 🙂

Vic Murphy – web links

I thought that the group might like to take a look at these Australian reports of the dig. An excellent photo of Vic and Werner is on The Age. 🙂

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/31/1085855499106.html

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=9400

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=520285&section=news

http://www.abc.net.au/news/indepth/featureitems/s1119521.htm

I don’t know – I don’t work in TV, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

I do – and know that to give inexperienced presenters (Suchet aside) key roles in a 90 minute live programme is simply asking for trouble. As for having to change the programme at short notice, the beauty of live TV is that it’s constantly changing and presenters/producers/editors earn their corn by reacting in those conditions. Poor programme. Great opportunity missed. 🙁

For me the one thing that spoiled the programme was the two presenters. If only they could have found two people with previous experience of this type of programme and knowledge of the subject. Guy was surely wasted in Germany, and would have been much better employed in London.

Any other ‘faults’ in the programme can probably be put down to it being live, and to the fact that Ray only decided to take part at the last minute. Could they have done a better job of incorporating this last minute change? I don’t know – I don’t work in TV, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

I’m still glad that the programme was made, and that I had the chance to watch it live. The edited documentary will be shown later in the year (15th September ??), and should be a much more polished presentation. I think we’ve got the best of both worlds on this one, a programme live as it happens & then the documentary later.

I shall be helping to run our museum this Sunday, so I shall take the chance to see what our visitors thought of the programme. Will people come to the museum who wouldn’t have done so before – I certainly hope so. Will somebody be inspired to join the museum as a volunteer, to help us run museum, again I certainly hope so.

Geoff.

Agreed. A few points…

Words fail me for the bumbling buffoon of a bloke in Germany. Channel Five were playing at being Time Team without sufficiently skilful presenters who clearly did not know or have an enthusiasm for their subject.

Although, ironically, Guy de la Bedoyere (the “bumbling buffoon”) is a regular member of the Time Team team, where he is usually to be seen as a “consultant” on Romano-British history. In fact he was on the Normandy Time Team dig shown the following day. And as he is also the author of a book on the aviation archealogy of the Battle of Britain, one would have expected him to be pretty well up on his subject – Time Team’s own website points him out as having expertise on second world war aircraft.

http://www.channel4.com/history/timeteam/biog_guy.html

I think the problem was probably that Guy had never had to act as the front man for the cameras before, and not on a live show.

Really, it was an embarrassing shambles, and like dhfan, my VHS is already re-wound ready for something else to go over it!

Agreed. A few points…

Live television needs assured, calm presenters. Suchet was fine, if a little quick to interrupt (fine with politicians on the news, but veterans need to be shown some respect), but the woman was simply atrocious. Words fail me for the bumbling buffoon of a bloke in Germany. Channel Five were playing at being Time Team without sufficiently skilful presenters who clearly did not know or have an enthusiasm for their subject.

People above have said that it helps to educate the kids. If so, why was it shown after the 9pm watershed?

I found it to be patronising rubbish – so much so that I switched off half-way through – something I never do with ANY aviation programme on TV.

Admirable effort from Five to screen a programme like this, but it could and should have been so much better.

dhfan’s post (No.92) says it all for me, too.

Me too. As someone who posted a negative opinion on the programme, it was certainly not aimed at what was being acheived or those involved in the research and organisation of the dig, more the way in which it was presented.

dhfan’s post (No.92) says it all for me, too.

OK,

If this program gets ONE CHILD interested then its done its job.

I could not agree more and we are all aware of the enormous upsurge of interest in archeaology that programmes such as Time Team have engendered. That said, it needs to be done properly. Time Team has faults, but it is well researched, enthusiastically but well presented with an array of well defined “types” in the team – the mad professor, the old hippy, and of course the popular Baldrick etc. It is without doubt a “cool” programme, which is what initially grabs the interest of the young and less aware. Fighter Dig was emphatically not a cool programme. I feel that this programme probably did more harm than good with its waffling and poor presentation and was more likely to convince people that wartime history and aircraft archeaology are the stuff of old buffers and anoraks.

OK,

BLOODY HELL what do I have to do come over to your side of the pond and Smack You All on the side of the Head. 😡

If this program gets ONE CHILD interested then its done its job. Thats who we need to be reaching with programs like this. Remember its them who are going TO CARE ON FOR US, so we must do everything that we can do to promote ahows like this. And YES we need to help them with the minor problems but to rip them apart gets us NO WERE, We need the Press to Be are friends, Hell when we lose a plane and pilot its the Press who is leading the Charge to have them ground.

So everyone like I said stop th BLOODT BICKERING and lets praise this program for opening eyes.

There appear to be two diametrically opposed viewpoints here, both strongly held. However, I don’t think they are as different as it seems at first.

The dedication of the researchers is not in doubt. They have every right to be delighted with the outcome after so many years hard work. Apart from the items recovered, to pinpoint the actual spot(s) is a feat in itself.
Ray Holmes is an elderly gentleman, apparently not in the best of health, and is perfectly entitled to be a little bemused and possibly out of his depth. Being modest, he also doesn’t seem to think he did anything special and wonders what all the fuss is about.
Although not entirely fair to the team in Germany, to use them mainly as a backup in case nothing was found in London does seem understandable.

Most people who are defending the programme seem to think that those like myself that were not impressed are complaining about the content, the researchers, workers or others deeply involved in the two projects.
I don’t think that is generally true and in my case it certainly isn’t. To me, the programme was spoilt by the presenters. The woman was irritating and John Suchet’s many years as a newsreader didn’t train him for off-the-cuff questions or what to do with the replies. I don’t see why Joe Public’s opinion should be any different. We were already interested in what was going on. If it has fired the imagination of anybody that wasn’t interested beforehand I shall be delighted to have my opinion proved wrong.

I hope, with judicious editing and, presumably, some extra footage after the artefacts have been cleaned up that a later broadcast or DVD will be substantially better.

Hey Guys,

I guess you didn’t read my post.

This is the best thing we could have happen, it gets the KIDS, YOU KNOW the NEXT GENERATION interested.

Also anything that HIGHLIGHTS the warbird scene is a GREAT THING. So please quite the stupid bickering and see the GOOD this program is going to bring.