Build your own airforce.

How abou the Polish P.37 Los bomber. Fast, heavy bomb load, simple aircraft for license production.

This would be my airforce,

Fighters Grummans F4Fs

Bombers Boeing B-17D

Light Attack Blenheims

ASW PBY-4

Transport C-47

Trainers BT-15,Tiger Moths, PT-17, T-6, UC-70

I know all but two US builded, but hey I’m a Yank

Interesting choices

Hmmmm

The MB 152 is an interesting choice…I was under the impression that they suffered a lot of engine problems and this affected their availability…

Personally, if I was to pick a French a/c I would have gone for the D520, no particular reason other than that I like the way it looks…maybe I should look up its service history….

BTW, this was a great idea for a thread..thanks Dmitri

Okay, this is mine…

Fighters: 32 Hurricane I (followed by Spitfires)
32 Curtiss H75 (idem)

Intercepters: 24 Bloch MB 152 (same here)

Light strike: some 32 Blenheim-bombers (replaced by Mosquitos)

Bombers: 16 LeO 451 (B-25)

Recon + army cooperation: mix of home-built Renard 31 and Fairey Fox (40 in total) + the rest of the Fairey Battles still in service.

ASR: 10 Ar 196 (Catalina)

Transport: 10 Ju 52 + 10 de Havilland Dragon Rapide + 5 Avro Anson (C-47)

Training: Stampe Vertongen SV-4 (Harvard)

And knowing the belgian military nowadays, I suppose they would have bought something from the french, the italians and the dutch back then to prove they are really a neutral country.

Air Sea Rescue

I don’t know if Belgium would have had an ASR component in 1940, but if I was to go for a flying boat option – maybe three or four of the Dornier flying boats (Do 24?)? They just strike me as more useful than the Walrus.

Also, in the later years the Vickers Warwick (did I get that right) which as basically a Wellington follow-on was fitted with an air-droppable lifeboat. So perhaps you could convert one or two of the wellingtons.

Kukri,

Your proposal sounds very realistic. Indeed the Ju-52 in the transport-role is kinda logic. Not much alternatives available (Avro Anson, Lockheed Hudson, Dragon Rapide).
As for training: I believe belgium would have chosen the Stampe Vertongen SV-4.
Air-Sea rescue? Perhaps a Supermarine Walrus. My idea on strike/light bomber is indeed the Blenheim too… Replacement: Mosquito.
Good job, anyway.

Dimitri

Belgian AF take two

Ok

Revisit based on a realistic view of budgets and purchasing habits and using Dmitri’s ORBAT (thanks for that) – here is probably what I could get away with in terms of pleasing the bean counters – rather than what I would get in an ideal world

Fighters – approx 80 Hurri I – realistically there is little chance of Belgium being able to purchase either 109E or Spit I based on financial and production constraints.

MR/ASW/ASuW – Wellingtons (Sunderland / Lib overkill IMHO) 8 – 12

Light Bombers / Light Strike – Blenheims 36 – 48

Recon – Blenheims (see above)

Liaison – Storch 12-18

Training – Tiger Moth & Harvards

Transport – Ju52 – simply because there is no competition until C-47 becomes available 12

On order : Spit I (replace some or all of Hurris)
Mosquito (For Fighter Bomber / Recon to replace Blenheims)
C-47 (replace Ju-52)

Sounds fair to me. We should not forget that Belgium was a neutral country back then. Buying german equipment only sounds rather unrealistic. Why not buy older stuff such as Curtiss H75, Brewster Buffalo, MS 406, MB 152, Hs 123, Ar 196, Fokker D 21, … And Blenheims, Hampden, Battle, …

Too much respect for my pilots. I want to give them the best chance of survival should they have to fight.

I’d also negotiate a ‘volume discount’ with the RLM for buying so much kit from them. Using the savings to fund the Whirlwind development programme. 🙂

Moggy

Sounds fair to me. We should not forget that Belgium was a neutral country back then. Buying german equipment only sounds rather unrealistic. Why not buy older stuff such as Curtiss H75, Brewster Buffalo, MS 406, MB 152, Hs 123, Ar 196, Fokker D 21, … And Blenheims, Hampden, Battle, …

Nice idea!

I think my Belgian Airforce for 1940 would look like this.

On strength

Interceptor: Bf109s, probably e-models. No point in mixing the types and having a second string fighter.

Ground attack: JU87, but to be phased out in the near future.

Night fighter/ long range fighter / medium bomber: All JU88 models

Transport: JU52 3m

Maritime patrol: Sunderland

Army co-op: Piper (Cub?)

PRU: VS Spitfire

However, on order would be B24 Liberators for the maritime patrol force, largely replacing the Sunderland. Beaufighters to share the ‘heavy fighter’ role with the JU88 and as ground attack/torpedo/strike aircraft.

Plus a huge order for a Merlin conversion of the Whirlwind, upgunned to 4 x 30mm.

Moggy

I attached an orbat of the belgian air force by 1940 to give you an idea of what it looked like back then.

And this one I found on another (french) website:

1er Régiment d’Aéronautique [ Top of Page ]
1st Air Regiment (Observation and Army Cooperation).
Ier Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base Attached to
1re Escadrille “Mouette” (1/I/1) Fairey Fox II & III 10 Deurne Hingene IVe & Ve Corps d’Armées
IIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base Attached to
3e Escadrille “Feuille de Houx” (3/II/1) Fairey Fox II 12 Goetsenhoven Glabeek IIe Corps d’Armée
IIIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base Attached to
5e Escadrille “Hirondelle” (5/III/1) Fairey Fox III 10 Goetsenhoven Jeneffe IIIe Corps d’Armée
& Liège fortress
IVe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base Attached to
7e Escadrille “Méphisto” (7/IV/1) Fairey Fox VI 9 Goetsenhoven Lonzee VIIe Corps d’Armée
& Namur fortress
Ve Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base Attached to
9e Escadrille “Sioux Bleu” (9/V/1) Renard 31 11 Bierset Wilderen Corps de Cavalerie
VIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base Attached to
11e Escadrille “Sioux Rouge” (11/V/1) Renard 31 8 Bierset Hannut Ier Corps d’Armée
and later VIe Corps d’Armée

2e Régiment d’Aéronautique [ Top of Page ]
2nd Air Regiment (Fighter).
Ier Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base
1e Escadrille “La Comète” (1/I/2) Gloster Gladiator 15 Schaffen Beauchevain &
Bevekom
2e Escadrille “Le Chardon” (2/I/2) Hawker Hurricane Mk.I 11 Schaffen Beauchevain &
Bevekom
IIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base
3e Escadrille “Cocotte Rouge” (3/II/2) Fiat CR 42 14 Nivelles Brustem
4e Escadrille “Cocotte Blanche” (4/II/2) Fiat CR 42 9 Nivelles Brustem
IIIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base
5e Escadrille “Aigle Bleu” (5/III/2) Fairey Fox VI 15 Nivelles Vissenaken
6e Escadrille “Aigle Rouge” (6/III/2) Fairey Fox VI 15 Nivelles Vissenaken

3e Régiment d’Aéronautique [ Top of Page ]
3rd Air Regiment (Reconnaissance – Bomber).
Ier Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base
1re Escadrille “Dragon Doré” (1/I/3) Fairey Fox III 15 Evère Neerhespen
3e Escadrille “Dragon Argenté” (3/I/3) Fairey Fox III 15 Evère Neerhespen
IIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base
9e Escadrille (9/II/3) none – Evère crews operated in 5/III/3
11e Escadrille (11/II/3) none – Evère planned but not yet created
IIIe Groupe
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base Wartime Base
5e Escadrille “Faucon Egyptien” (5/III/3) Fairey Battle 14 Evère Belcele
7e Escadrille “Flèche Ailée” (7/III/3) Fairey Fox VIII 9 Evère Belcele

——————————————————————————–

Ecoles de Pilotage [ Top of Page ]
Ecole de Pilotage Elémentaire (Basic Flight School)
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base
1ere Escadrille Avro 504, Avro 626, MS 236 &SV4B St-Denijs-Westrem
2e Escadrille (these planes were distributed Gosselies
3e Escadrille thoughout the unit) Deurne
5e Escadrille Wevelgem
6e Escadrille Wevelgem
Ecole de Pilotage Avancé (Advanced Flight School)
Unit Aircraft Total Peacetime Base
E.P.A. Fairey Firefly
Fairey Fox
Bréguet XIX
Potez 33
Koolhoven FK 56 ?
?
?
?
12 Wevelgem & Goetsenhoven

I hope this will help…

Belgian AF 1940

Ok

I am at work…so I don’t really have the resources or the time to check the Belgian AF ORBAT..but here goes a flier….

Front Line Fighter (3/4 squadrons approx 120 a/c) – Bf109E – in a defensive role their short range should not be felt so badly – better armament than a Spit I or a Hurri I.

Transport – Ju52 – don’t know if C-47 was available in big enough quantities in 1940

Recon – Ju86P – converted airliner used as recon by Luftwaffe (have I got the designation right?)

Fighter-Bomber – 2/3 Squadrons Hurri I or Po1-16 (cannon armed variant)(assuming USSR a/c available) – might lean to Hurri I for simply better spares availability

Light Bomber – Not a lot of choice off the top of my head, but I would say one or two squadrons (say aprox 50) Blenheim with say a squadron of Ju87 – for light strike role.

Liaison / Army Co-op – Fieseler Storch

As i am writing this I see one or two problems – mix is too diverse and might cause a logistical problem- perhaps a better combo would be Spit/Hurri for fighters – on the grounds of engine commonality, but I would say that Belgium would have a far better chance of having 120 109E in terms of production availability

Oh, well let me get back to work….