Rotation of WW2 RAF Pilots

You probably know that he died a couple of years ago. Would you happen to know anything about his time with the Pakistani AF in late 1940s-early 1950s?

A friend of his lives not far away from me here in Jersey, I aim to meet up with him in the not too distant future, I will make enquiries. I’ll also see if Roman has any relatives in Canada that may be able to help.

While he was still with us, a friend copied his log book. I have a copy of the copy if you’re interested.

I would, especially his time with 315 at Woodvale in 1942. His son became a rock star playing with the band Curved Air in the 1970’s.

Blok’s memorabilia have been donated to the RAF Museum, although they tend to deny that. I took me about four requests before they admitted they had his log book in the archive.

Conni has sent me copies of the relevant pages from his log book, and also a number of photo’s of him.

Any chance to see their log books (copies)?

Nick Najbicz sent me a copy of his fathers log book through a third party who was travelling from South Africa to the UK, unfortunately I never received it. I will contact Nick again and Mark Uchwat to see if they will send us copies

I have just read the book ‘Green Kiwi versus German Eagle’ by Norby King, who was a Hurricane and later Spitfire pilot during the war. He mentions that when he joined 43 Sqn RAF in 1942 on Hurricanes, the CO was a Squadron Leader Du Vivier. He states:

“Du Viv was in the Belgian Air Force. He’s been flying operationally, without a rest, since the invasion. He gets away with it by recording operations in his log book as practice flying. Quite a type realy.”

So this is another twist to the rotation of pilots. He must have been operational for at least two years straight.

Incidentally it’s a good book and was reprinted again last year so is still available. King served later on 485 (NZ) Sqn during the Normandy invasion, and he says Johnnie Houlton was being a little naughty in ML407 when he shot down the first enemy post-invasion, because he strayed from the ordered mission and went hunting. Interesting. I can’t recall if Johnnie mentions that in his own book.

Flt Lt Roman Hrycak (317) is the pilots name I couldn’t remember at work this afternoon

You probably know that he died a couple of years ago. Would you happen to know anything about his time with the Pakistani AF in late 1940s-early 1950s?

Miksa’s family (Pilkinton Glass people) won’t reply to my letters, I think there’s some bad blood.

While he was still with us, a friend copied his log book. I have a copy of the copy if you’re interested.

Conni Blok came to Old Hay the year before last,

Blok’s memorabilia have been donated to the RAF Museum, although they tend to deny that. I took me about four requests before they admitted they had his log book in the archive.

and I have exchanged letters with Michal Najbicz’s son Nick is RSA and also Zdzislaw Uchwat son Mark, in Canada

Any chance to see their log books (copies)?

Flt Lt Roman Hrycak (317) is the pilots name I couldn’t remember at work this afternoon

Miksa’s family (Pilkinton Glass people) won’t reply to my letters, I think there’s some bad blood.
Conni Blok came to Old Hay the year before last, and I have exchanged letters with Michal Najbicz’s son Nick is RSA and also Zdzislaw Uchwat son Mark, in Canada

The pilots that I have been in contact and have met are.

S/Ldr Tadeusz Andersz
Sqn Ldr Luwig Matel

Ludwig Martel I presume?

Sqn Ldr Franciszek Kornicki
F/LT Konrad Stembrowicz
W/O Mieczyslaw Matus
F/Lt Czeslaw Tarkowski (Died)
F/Lt Wladyslaw Zajac
there is one other whose name I can’t recall.

Presumably Jan Kowalski, Wlodzimierz Miksa, or Stanislaw Blok?

Yes I have several wartime photographs of her with 315 and 317, including the most common one of her with F/LT Konrad Stembrowicz sat on the cowling with a couple of WAAFs. I’ve also have photo’s of her at Hednesford, Bridgenorth, Church Fenton and Linton.

I would like to track down shots of 58 OTU at Hawarden and any info as to her use by Vickers for testing in 1943.

The pilots that I have been in contact and have met are.

S/Ldr Tadeusz Andersz
Sqn Ldr Luwig Matel
Sqn Ldr Franciszek Kornicki
F/LT Konrad Stembrowicz
W/O Mieczyslaw Matus
F/Lt Czeslaw Tarkowski (Died)
F/Lt Wladyslaw Zajac
there is one other whose name I can’t recall.

Besides the above I’m also in contact with the families of several other pilots who had died prior to my research.

I have a reasonable amount of info on BM597, including a large photgraphic history.

How about wartime photos?

Thanks Voytech,

I have a reasonable amount of info on BM597, including a large photgraphic history. I looked into this for HAC 5 years ago and it’s been an on going project of mine every since. I met with 5 former Polish pilots and at one time was in contact with 8, though in the past few years two have passed away.

Thanks for the info on 58 OTU, at some point I will make a trip to the PRO to have a look at the Unit ORB and records.

Yes HAC’s Spitfire Vb BM597, flew with both 315 Sqn and 317 Sqn from May 1942 until February 1943, it switched squadron in October 42 (I believe). It also flew with 58 OTU at Hawarden in mid 1944.

Delivered to no. 315 on 7 May (according to the Aircraft Movement Card), first flight in the Squadron on 10 May (According to the ‘A’ Flight Flying Log Book). Full list of pilots/flights in no. 315 can be found in the Squadron documents (I think I have prepared a similar listing a while ago for Mark12). On 5 September no. 315 moved from Woodvale to Northolt, leaving all its aircraft for no. 317 Sqn which moved in the opposite direction. From then on, the only source of information about BM597 actions is the ORB or pilot’s log books, as no other relevant documents survive for this Squadron.
By 1944 there was no Polish section in no. 58 OTU.

Some of them do list serials. Like with the ORBs, it mostly depends on the custom of a particular squadron. Some referred to their aeroplanes by serials, some by codes, some by both, and some by neither. Any particular aircraft you have in mind?

Yes HAC’s Spitfire Vb BM597, flew with both 315 Sqn and 317 Sqn from May 1942 until February 1943, it switched squadron in October 42 (I believe). It also flew with 58 OTU at Hawarden in mid 1944.

Do any of the records list particular aircraft serials or is it just personell data records ????

Some of them do list serials. Like with the ORBs, it mostly depends on the custom of a particular squadron. Some referred to their aeroplanes by serials, some by codes, some by both, and some by neither. Any particular aircraft you have in mind?

All sorts of documents pertaining to the Polish Armed Forces in WWII. Mainly for those based in UK and the Middle East, but also stuff about 1939 and pre-1939 armed forces in Poland.
In terms of aviation, documents of:
Polish squadrons (300-309, 315-318, 663),
Polish wings,
Polish stations in UK,
Polish OTUs (Polish branch of nos. 55, 58, 61 OTU for the fighters, plus no. 18 (Polish) OTU for the bombers)
PAF HQ and Polish liaison offices at the various RAF HQs.
In general, there are more types of documents preserved than for RAF squadrons at Kew. Apart from the usual Operations Record Books there are also Flight Authorisation Books, Unit Flight Log Books, daily orders, Monthly Operational Reports etc. Not all of these survived for all the above units, though. Unfortunately for most users of this forum, a lot of these documents are in Polish.

This particular operational tour sheet was attached to one of the fighter squadron’s personnel file.

Do any of the records list particular aircraft serials or is it just personell data records ????

What sort of information is held on file at the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum?

All sorts of documents pertaining to the Polish Armed Forces in WWII. Mainly for those based in UK and the Middle East, but also stuff about 1939 and pre-1939 armed forces in Poland.
In terms of aviation, documents of:
Polish squadrons (300-309, 315-318, 663),
Polish wings,
Polish stations in UK,
Polish OTUs (Polish branch of nos. 55, 58, 61 OTU for the fighters, plus no. 18 (Polish) OTU for the bombers)
PAF HQ and Polish liaison offices at the various RAF HQs.
In general, there are more types of documents preserved than for RAF squadrons at Kew. Apart from the usual Operations Record Books there are also Flight Authorisation Books, Unit Flight Log Books, daily orders, Monthly Operational Reports etc. Not all of these survived for all the above units, though. Unfortunately for most users of this forum, a lot of these documents are in Polish.

This particular operational tour sheet was attached to one of the fighter squadron’s personnel file.

What sort of information is held on file at the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum?

I have not seen any official document to expressly explain this policy,

Now I have! During my last week’s visit to the Polish Institute and Sikorski Museum, London, I have come across the following piece of paper (hope it shows):

Of course guys you are right and I am totally wrong, I got my pilots mixed up.

The chap I was thinking of is Flt Lt Ron Collis who served with 41 Sqn and transferred to 126 Sqn with who he was shot down with during a Rhubarb to Cap Carteret on 8 July 1944 in a MKXl ML366 MK~J.

Ron now lives in California.

Sorry I missed the Peter Graham reference. He was in MB831 EB-R and was attacking a trainload of V2s and was hit by flak and went down.

He and Herb Wagner were bridge partners in the POW camp playing some incredible number of bridge games during their time as “Kriegies”

Dan

I am surprised that Ian says that Peter Graham was with 41 and then was shot down with another squadron. According to his book “Skypilot – memoirs from take-off to landing” – which is superb, and available from Peter himself – he was still with 41 squadron when he was shot down on 1 September, on a rhubarb in the area of St. Omer (not St. Malo). FCL puts him in MB831 – 41 Sqn (or is that Sqdn or Sqdn. !!) and “Shot down while attacking a train near Ghent”. Regarding rests between tours – S/Ldr R A “Max” Sutherland DFC did one tour as Co of 602 (City of Glasgow) Squadron AuxAF between Oct ’43 – Jul ’44 then “rested” as a V.C.P. (Visual Control Post !!) and then did another tour as CO of 602 again between Sept ’44 and May ’45. Several famous photo’s exist of him and Major Colin Grey of the Queens regiment, both on an armoured vehicle and occupying a hole in the ground (some rest !!). On another point raised recently (Squadron/Sqn etc.) I have a photo of Australian pilots serving with 130 (Punjab) squadron at B.78 Eindhoven in March ’45 – of the 7 in the photo 2 are in RAAF blue, and two have the Australia flash. The others are in “standard RAF battledress. A further photo of one in Australian Blue shows him in RAF battledress, but without wings !!:)

Thanks Dan

I tried contacting Herb a few months ago but never received a reply, I was given his details by Peter Graham who also flew with 41 Sqn at the same time. He was shot down near St Malo with another Squadron a few weeks later.

If you contact Herb again at any point I’d like to know more about his time incarcerated on Guernsey, and his journey from there to France and beyond if at all possible.

Also if he can remember anything about Robinson and his origins that would be a bonus. I’ve tried writing to the papers in Ireland but to no avail.

Thanks again

Originally posted by EN830
Doe’s he list his operations in detail, I’d be interested to know if he operated around the Channel Islands.

I think I’ve mentioned before that 41 Sqn lost two MkXll’s in action around Guernsey in 1944, Amercian Herb Wagner on 2nd June 44 (POW) and Irishman Kenneth Robinson on 7 June 1944 (KIA). Steve Brews site features pictures of both of them.

I’d be interested to know if you log book mentions these two actions.

The photo of “Wag” on Steve Brew’s site is from my collection. I corresponded with Herb Wagner back in the mid 80s and in fact talked to him on the phone a couple of months ago.

He took a flak hit from Guernsey on June 2, 1944 while flying MB843 EB-K and went into the Channel. There was a mad dash to try and rescue him but the Germans got their first. He got roughed up a bit by the Germans as they thought he might know something about the pending invasion and then got the cold shoulder in the POW camp at first as he was in RAF uniform and speaking with an American accent. They thought he was a German spy planted in the camp for a time.

Robbie Robinson also went into the Channel. He was seen in the water, unable to get to his raft. Jimmy Theile and others tried throwing their rafts to him as they orbited overhead, but sadly by the time the Walrus got there he had died of exposure. He had been flying MB881-EB-S

Quoting a letter from Jimmy Theile “One incident does come to mind reading my log. June 7, 1944 reads ‘Escort Typhoons to Guernsey-Robbie in the drink’. I remember quite vividly as we all circled him and saw him lose his dinghy. Some of us managed to get our rafts which we say on out from under our bums(quite and effort in the cramped cockpit of a Spit), and drop them. Unfortunately although he got one, he was unable to get into it, and died before the Walrus was about to get to him. I remember the Walrus boys deserved a medal, landing in huge seas under the German guns. The seas were so rough in fact that the Walrus could not take off and was taxied and towed back to England.”

Dan