Just wanted to know the general opinion on this board about the possibilities of recovering large warbirds from lakes. The recent thread about the Windermere Sunderland etc. proves that there is a lot of interest in these sites. The past has proved that some very rare or extinct aircraft were represented by recovering some substantial aircraft from lakes (2 Halifaxes, a Hampden, Skua, Gladiators etc.) Indeed 57Rescue Canada is investigation another Halifax for recovery.
In Holland we have now five possible sites to investigate this summer where possibly substantial aircraft wrecks are located in the IJsselmeer (the big lake in the middle). In the past we have recovered some substantial parts from a Lancaster but that was beyond recovering due to its bulk.
But suppose one of thes sites was indeed a complete Stirling, Lancaster or Halifax (to name but a few), would there be interested parties in the UK to mount a recovery operation to enable such an airframe to return to the UK. Or wouldn’t there be?
Just curious
Cees
p.s. one of these five sites is a Heinkel He115 of which we already recovered an engine with propellor. This summer should prove that the main airframe is still there judging by sidescan sonar images.
By: Hatton - 12th April 2004 at 11:52
Thanks for the info Cees, i couldnt agree more about the Netherlands deserving a Lanc for display. Look forward to hearing more info on here or on the WIX board.
By: HP57 - 12th April 2004 at 10:22
Roger,
Yes, but I haven’t heard anything since from them. I will just wait and see.
Steve, the Lancaster is known and there are some crewmembers still listed missing so this is the reason we will hopefully can fire up the local authorities to effect a recovery. I agree with Lancman (again?, must be spring is coming) that another Lancaster is not very desirable for the UK, but it would be if a major Dutch museum would be interested to raise one and put it on display in as found condition. The feelings the Dutch have regarding the RAF are still very strong.
About the IJsselmeer, this has never been fully searched and we have started on it some years ago but the work to be done is huge so it will some time, and as we are enthisiasts with normal jobs and social lives we cannot do as much as we want to. But personally if there is a chance that a complete Stirling can be found it is either here or in Scandinavia.
Cees
By: Last Lightning - 11th April 2004 at 22:57
perhaps theirs a sterling just waiting to be found in a lake in the uk?
By: EHVB - 11th April 2004 at 17:56
Cees,
there are talks going on with “Flevoland’ to raise some money to raise something we discussed some weeks ago. I’ll update you asap.
BW Roger
By: Der - 11th April 2004 at 16:52
Are there any large expanses of water left in Holland that havent been fully explored yet?
A Stirling just has to be the ultimate prize.
By: Bluebird Mike - 11th April 2004 at 13:51
Yes, the dread salt water is going to lower chances; what are the odds of finding a Stirling in fresh water somewhere? 🙁
By: JDK - 11th April 2004 at 13:46
Good man Lancman.
A Stirling HAS to be at the top of a list of aircraft most wanted. There is a Stirling in the water, but while it’s largely complete, it’s in sea (salt) water and not complete enough to warrent recovery. Article by Roy Nesbit in Aeroplane some years back now.
Cheers
By: Bluebird Mike - 11th April 2004 at 13:42
You won’t believe I’m about to say this, but, never mind ‘another’ Lancaster, we have some of those, we really need to find a decent Stirling-there must be one somewhere!
By: Hatton - 11th April 2004 at 11:47
Originally posted by HP57
there is a very substantial Lancaster lying at five metres depth
Cees
five metres is extremely shallow, wow. Any clues as to which lanc it is and better still, any photos?
best regards, steve
By: HP57 - 11th April 2004 at 11:39
By the way, any hints as to which 5 aircraft you are investigating?
——————————————————————————–
Apart from the Heinkel He115, there is a very substantial Lancaster lying at five metres depth with another two recently found wrecks of which the type still has to be established this summer. Close to where the Heinkel is located the side scan sonar has found two more very large objects at the bottom. This is the area where there used to be a large seaplane base to the east of Amsterdam. Our records show that over twenty aircraft crashed during take off and landing accidents. Types could be He115’s and Arado 196’s.
As far as I know the B29 in Zeeland is too big for Dutch resources to recover, let alone foreign ones. If it was a Stirling then it could have been different. Two years ago we were approached by the RAF Sub Aqua team and they wanted to know if we knew a substantial Stirling wreck they could recover. We didn’t they but things can change overnight I guess, it’s all a matter of luck.
Cees
By: Kenneth - 10th April 2004 at 21:48
My opinion is that the ressources are better spent on ensuring preservation of the large aircraft currently around and much in need of it, i.e. the Beverley. Just who has the ressources to recover, preserve and restore a large aircraft from a lake? This all reminds me a bit of the attempts to clone dinosaurs while thousand of other existing species are endangered.
By: SpitfireMK - 10th April 2004 at 18:07
I remember seeing pictures of the b-17g dinah might it was 100% complete with only bend proppelor tips and a crushed chin turret.
When large portions of water was drained near the ijselmeer now flevoland these relics just surfaced.
Most of these wreck are scrapped including this b-17g (it was found if i remember correct in the mid ’60 or early ’70’s).
These wreck must be salvaged and preserved (or restored )and go to a museum.
Prefferebly in the country where they are found.
Although not in a lake a b-29 superfortess is still lying in zeeland when it ditched there.
There where rumours that parts would be salvaged but i haven’t heard anything about it ever since.
Maybe anyone here nows about this b-29??:confused:
By: station357 - 10th April 2004 at 17:49
Cees,
There are a couple of aircraft which would arouse interest with groups in the UK of which most of us are aware of. The Stirling and the Whitley. Although I cannot speak on behalf of these groups, I would have thought the expense of salvaging aircraft of this size could be quite prohibitive. Lottery bids anyone? (well to me it’s a good cause)!
Anyway, I am not sure who would be able to lay claim, to say, a potentially complete Stirling? Would the RAF museum get first refusal? What would Hendon do with it anyway? Perhaps they will clear a space next to the Halifax and have another ‘crashed’ diorama. 🙁
By the way, any hints as to which 5 aircraft you are investigating? 😉
Regards,
Paul
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April 10, 2004 at 4:18 pm