World War Two Replicas

Chad – probably yahoo being an a-hole. Bung ’em along to [email]spitfirebuilder91@yahoo.co.uk[/email]

Cheers!

Originally posted by DazDaMan
Chad – e-mail sent! 🙂

No dice Daz, e-mail never arrived! As soon as I have your e-mail addy I’ll send the pics along. Thanks!

My sentiments entirely, JDK, you beat me to it!

It’s not perfect, it’s a replica or recreation (as you prefer)

As I said. Fair comment Lancman, and thanks for your post Cees. Still it is better than nothing, and while the posts on this thread have been very sensible, I get hacked off when people snipe at groups such as the Halifax gang at Elvington. It’s the put up or shut up difference.
Cheers

they managed to bring a Hally back to Yorkshire for anyone to admire (enthusiasts and veterans).

No, they didn’t, they built something that looks like a Halifax; they didn’t build a Halifax! THAT is the difference I’m always protesting about!!! :rolleyes:

Cees, all credit to you, but you are a bit behind these guys in terms of ‘job done’ eh? The Canadians at Trenton will have a superb Halifax when they have finished, I’m sure. But they don’t right now.
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JDK

You are right, but in my opinion a restoration or reconstruction is never finished. At some point in the future something will have to be done to ensure preservation for the future. I am a great fan of the YAM Halifax and as I am working on my own Halifax cockpit reconstruction/replica project (following the way YAM reconstructed their cockpit section), I know the problems (and in their case hundreds of times more) they have faced during their hard work, and they managed to pull something off that has been an important exhibit in Halifax country Yorkshire. That is, if you can compare what I am doing against the reconstruction of the YAM Halifax.

What YAM did is nothing short of fantastic and they should be given the credit they deserve. With minimal resources (here we go again) they managed to bring a Hally back to Yorkshire for anyone to admire (enthusiasts and veterans). The shortcuts they had to make can be and are (obviously) being put right and you should see it as a improving restoration project or something similar. The only things that do distract from being a real external representation of an operational Halifax is the nose transparency which doesn’t look right, and the engines/propellors, but I know that they are working on the manufacture of a new and better nose transparency, so it will only take a matter of time, but in the meantime it perhaps gives the aircraft a “thrown together” look which it isn’t. When I was inside it in 1997 I really had the feeling I was going back in time with every step I made towards the cockpit.

NA337 of course is a project that started on a different footing but the end result will be astonishing. The way they restored the airframe can be an example for the RAFM to do the same in an area where visitors can view the progress made instead of having to remove it for several years from the display while it is being restored. The condition of W1048 actually was (and is) very good and much better than NA337, perhaps the general opinion in the early seventies was that this airframe was beyond restoration but things have changed over the past decades with seemingly corroded and battered airframes being restored to fly. But I am not going to rant about the replica/restoration/reconstruction discussion, that’s just a matter of opinion., just look for the previous threads on this topic.

The bottom line is, also regarding the heavily coloured opinions against the Spitfire and Lancaster as opposed to the other types : It has all happened in the past, it is no use to try to explain things that happened already decades ago. Just let everyone enjoy their various favourite aircraft types and its merits. And just make sure that as much of these warhorses are brought back for restoration no matter if it’s a Hally, Lanc or Stirling or Whitley. And if someone thinks that the YAM Halifax isn’t one then just don’t go there, but go to East Kirkby, Brooklands, Colney or Duxford instead. There is so much to see for everyone.

Just my two eurocents of course

Cheers

Cees

The Hendon Halifax was recovered way back in 1972/73. At that time, the notion of bringing virtually extinct aircraft back to life – “Jurassic Park” style – was not really considered. So, when the RAF Museuem saw how bad the Halifax’s condition was, they decided not to proceed with the original plan of a full restoartion and display it “as is”. Maybe, if being recovered today, they might have come to a different comclusion.

Personally I think that the Halifax looks pretty damn spectacular in those photos posted by Papa Lima. It serves as a fabulous reminder for future generations of the thousands of men who flew in the type, and those crews did include Brits, Aussies, Canadians, French, New Zealanders, and no doubt men from many other nations. At least one Lancaster has been kept by museums and enthusiasts in each of the Empire countries as a reminder of their contributions to Bomber Command. Sadly the same consideration was not given to the other types such as Halifax, Stirling and Wellington, etc. Each type had their merits.

I’ve never intended to knock the Lanc at all, it was a fantastic aircraft and the best heavy bomber in the war, I just feel that the other types also need to be remembered and celebrated too. Three or four generations from now, when the real veterans are long gone to that great big aerial battle in the sky, school kids may think the Lancaster was the only British bomber in the war. They’ll probably also think the CASA-built HE111 was the only German bomber too for that matter… I pity the future generations as they won’t have the benefit we’ve had to talk with real veterans and find out what it was really like.

Although I don’t want to argue about this because I do see the point of what’s being said here, I wonder that if the one in the RAF Museum was rebuilt to as-new standard, would it require around the same amount of new build material to replace all the corroded and damaged parts? If restored properly I would think it’d definately come close. If so, would we still maintain it was a genuine Halifax, or would it too become a replica? Where do we make the distinction – the YAM one IS built round the remains of a genuine airframe, even if it’s not too substantial – much like the BBMF Hurricane and several ex-Russian crashed aircraft, etc., that have been rebuilt to fly – and they are still called genuine!

I concede that the Halifax is not completely original, but from where I’m standing their achievements are fantastic, especially in the short amount of time it took to complete for such a big project.

As one last thought… With what was acheived on the YAM project considering all the donated parts and work by the likes of BAe, did the RAF Museum realy miss the boat in not restoring their example? I’m certain they too would have had such generosity and support granted to such an undertaking rather than having to foot the bill themselves. Maybe not now though.

100% agree with you, JDK.
More power to your elbow!

Hey, ease off guys.

It’s not perfect, it’s a replica or recreation (as you prefer) – no-one (I hope) is claiming it’s an original Halifax, but bluntly, it is the most Halifax like thing we’ve got. The RAF Museum’s machine is a wreck, and whatever your preferences, certainly does NOT look like a Halifax ‘ready to go’ on a night raid. Cees, all credit to you, but you are a bit behind these guys in terms of ‘job done’ eh? The Canadians at Trenton will have a superb Halifax when they have finished, I’m sure. But they don’t right now.

As the British (may I say Commonwealth – let’s not forget quite a few Aussies and Canucks wre involved, not to mention all the other nations – there were quite a few French crews on Halifaxes, weren’t there? Or shall we ignore their contribution?) heavy bomber effort of W.W.II is badly biassed towards the Lanc, let’s have a sense of proportion here.

It’s a matter of some disgrace that not a single Stirling survived, and the real “Friday 13th” was scrapped, but rather than sitting on their fannys and complaining, the Elvington boys got on with it. It’s not bad (it’s not great either) and it’s a damn sight better than what anyone else has done, or even tried so far.

Lancaster: over a Doz
Halifax: 2 original, 1 replica, & parts
Stirling: nothing worth looking at

Yes please,

I am still waiting for the Stirling Project to visit the large heap of brackets and fittings from N3654 which we have in store for them, including a lot of main spar attachment fittings.

Cees

Lancman – methinks you doth protest too much. Why be so aggressive toward their efforts? Bloody hell – I’d never be able to do it.

As for the Halifax/Lanc debate – both achieved great things in WW2. The Lanc has had the lion’s share of the plaudits over the past 60 years so it is only fair for the Halifax to receive due recognition.

Anyone up for a Stirling build.

Airfix Halifax

I actually agree with Lancman that Airfix moulded the nose transparency as it looks misshapen and cloudy (probably ill-fitting as well.:D

Cheerio

Cees

STILL looks like a giant finished Airfix!

I hope my diagram above at least shows that while yes, of course this is a good achievement that may well mean something to the ex-Hallibag boys, this thing is NOT a Halifax!!! :p

A lot better than an empty space!

And finally, a close-up of the nose art . . .

Different view of the Halifax at Elvington, taken in 2003.

My contribution – the Elvington Halifax in Februay this year.

Originally posted by Chad Veich
Daz, if you will send me a private email to [email]cvnkv@aol.com[/email] I will reply with the pics of the Deford replica that you requested. Thanks, Chad.

Chad – e-mail sent! 🙂

Replica Hallibag…

Hi all
could someone share with us a reasonably up-to-date picture of the Halifax replica.
I haven’t been to Elvington for several years and I’d like to see what it looks like now.
Thanks in advance
Andy