Possible lack of aircraft at Flying Legends

Personally I’ll just enjoy the sight and sound of those magnificent aircraft and say a quiet thank you to those who flew the warbirds in combat so that this country would not be under the jackboot.

Septic

You get a load of people to do security on the gates at the end of the day and I am sure they will take you up on opening the walk at the end of the day. As for me after a day on the airfield in the sun/wind/rain, all I want to do is find the beer tent and sit down.

Flying Legends over the last few years has to a certain extant followed a similar format. This is by far the easiest way of organising a display, Biggin Hill has for years worked on this principal, it keeps Joe Public happy and keeps costs down. Biggin even manages to keep the enthusiasts content, by booking one unique type, wether it be Kermit Weeks Mosquito or the Short Sunderland.

Maybe its time that Legends made more of the fact that many pilots would like to fly their vintage or Warbird aircraft into the display. Not as a performer but as a static exhibit. Great Warbirds at West Malling was a great exponent of this tatic. The US shows at Midland and Reno all do the same. Just provide the fuel for them to get there and get home.

The other factor that maybe worth considering is pilots. Today the best displays are flown by the regular display pilots, many of the owner drivers just arent in the same league. Display teams such as the Breightling Fighters should be encouraged. The Harvard team was a great example of pilots working together on a regular basis, it may have had its light hearted moments but they were very polished.

Set piece scenario’s have always worked well at other venues but I’m not sure the IWM could in this day an age be seen to re-enact the great Air operations of WWII. The CAF still drop the Atom bomb at Midland!

One last area where the Legends could really score would be for the reopening of the Flightline tour on the Saturday evening of the show weekend, hopefully the chance of great light with little in the way of aircraft movements.

As a closing note I can well remember going to a Classic Fighter display where the wind was too strong to fly the show, but I still enjoyed it!

It’s my best weekend of the year. Nothing to complain about aircraft-wise.

Nah, Steve,
Wasn’t aimed at you, You or yOU. By the way Me is for 109s after the E…
😉
ChEers

Originally posted by JDK
Hi Steve,
I think you got muddled – God only thinks he’s Stephen Grey. Capital hhuh for the chap who collects old bold pilots upstairs…

Hi James

Was this aimed at Me?,
if so can you enlighten Me as to what you are getting at please?

Steve 964

I find it hard to believe we are complaining about the value of Legends. It is a tribute to the determination of pilots through the ages and those determined to keep their aircraft flying.

I remember as a kid the Battle of Britain Day air displays in the 70’s. There was a display from a Hurricane and a Spitfire and that was the sum total of world war II aircraft. We now have a thriving historic aircraft business in this country that has enabled such a high quality airshow.

Legends is a major showcase for the restoration movement in the UK and without the interest generated in the public at large the nanny state would find it easy to restrict flying historic aircraft in any form.

Yes, I guess it is easy to forget that us anoraks might not be in the majority at airshows. While the very generous people at TFC, OFMC, Shuttleworth et al give up their time to put on these displays, I will consider myself fortunate indeed to have seen them and continue to be very grateful for their efforts

I have tried to avoid getting embroiled in this “debate”, and have now patently failed.

For goodness sake chaps, Flying Legends – like any other air show – is not designed just to please the so-called “aircraft enthusiast”. The target audience is the “where shall we go this weekend” crowd, of which only a small proportion are people like us. The aviation enthusiast population is not sufficiently large to pay the bills of “warbird” owners – we need to remember that.
The average airshow goer is not aware of / interested in the fact that last year (assuming he goes that often) he saw four Hurricanes, and this year he only saw three.

Having said that, calm and reasoned debate about what we would and would not like to see at Flying Legends is fine of course, but please can we keep it in proportion and not get so steamed up about it?

Originally posted by DROPTANK

A36, P51Ds SPITS HURRICANES B17 MOSSIE B25s F3Fs (G32) JU52
G59 LYSANDERS CONNIE A26s TF51 F8F YAK3 SEA FURIES FIREFLY
SWORDFISHs do i need to go on, without TFC you would not of seen many of the types listed unless you travelled the world.

Perhaps we have taken Mr Grey for granted over the years!!!

I think you’re right and perhaps we may have been spoiled! It’s the old customer service maxim: the better the service, the more you want!! Personally, I much prefer Griffons, Merlins, Pratt & Whitney etc to J79s, Adours etc. After a while one F-16 display looks just like another and the noise gives me a headache. Can’t say the same for Mustangs, Spits and Hurris, where the pilot flys the plane, not a computer (maybe I’m getting old and boring now!)!

I bet the americans looking at this thread are shaking their heads in disbelief, what an un grateful bunch of moaners SOME are out there, look at the a/c Mr Grey has been able to bring to legends over the years outside of duxford based a/c.

A36, P51Ds SPITS HURRICANES B17 MOSSIE B25s F3Fs (G32) JU52
G59 LYSANDERS CONNIE A26s TF51 F8F YAK3 SEA FURIES FIREFLY
SWORDFISHs do i need to go on, without TFC you would not of seen many of the types listed unless you travelled the world.

Perhaps we have taken Mr Grey for granted over the years!!!

Originally posted by Mike J
Unfortunately, the rotating of warbirds costs a lot of money, and, in my view, has added little or nothing to ‘Legends’ over the past few years. We have had at the past 3 shows:

A pair of replica biplanes, in inaccurate colour schemes, that made a few flypasts – 2001

Yet another Mustang, in a rather nasty, inaccurate paint scheme (albeit a rare, Allison-engined version) – 2002

Yet another Mustang, in a rather nasty, inaccurate paint scheme (yet another Merlin-engined one this time) – 2003

Unless the types displayed are of sufficient rarity / interest, I would have to ask, ‘why bother’?

Personally, I’d rather see the money and effort expended on attracting some of the rarer European warbirds to Legends (Swedish Saab B17, Finnish Gauntlet, Swiss C-36 thingy with Hispano Suiza engine, Swiss Morane, French and German Yak-3s, Messerscmitt Foundation ‘109s, Red Bull stuff from Austria, to name but a few)

Cant believe we’re knocking Legends here! its just so unique!!

Re the last phrase, yes to the rest but the Red Bull stuff!!!???
An awful silver Mitchell, disgusting blue Widgeon, spurious Corsair and you have a go at the F3Fs , A26 and TF51!!? and dont get me started on the vixen (again!)

🙂 I think that we have to ensure that the standards are maintained and if possible improved,as in all things in life.If we go down the line of thought that Invader has about we should be grateful for what we see compared to him then we have taken the first step towards a downhill slippery slope where we will be grateful of the odd aircraft and not the sky fulls we have now.
Alot of frustration is being vented which is a shame if this thread becomes a flame war and constructive comments and criticism are being pushed into the background.
We have lost alot of airshows in the recent years for various reasons and same with the displaying aircraft,what would you like to see to improve the airshow circuit or do you think needs changing,if anything?
Be nice to each other guys and gals,mud flinging isn’t going to get anyone anywhere.:D

Not me!

I wasn’t criticising Leg Ends, having never been, I was just making a couple of suggestions!!

😀

Hi Chris,
A masterly summary.

Invader696 – fine, get on a plane. I’ve travelled the world to see a/c. It’s expensive, but it can be done.

If you re-read my posts, you’ll see I’m trying to make constructive comments. Also (sorry Chris this doesn’t fit the pattern!) I won’t lie down and shut up because owners are kind enough to let me look on. I DO VERY much appreciate that they get ’em out. I reserve the right to say, when I think apropriate, ‘could do better’.

1. In the early 90s, shows in the UK were not good (IMHO) because there was NO constructive criticism alowed in print. NONE of the UK mags would do anything except print the weather and what turned up. RIAT fell into a hole and realised they needed to listen and do better. Constructive criticism has a role.

2. You may have overlooked that DX shows are a money for bums on seats commercial activity in the final analysis. If people don’t come, if it gets ‘stale’ which is my concern, then the plug will be pulled. No more show. That is NOT to say a huge number of people don’t work VERY, very hard for no reward except the satisfaction of a good show – and I thank them. If you think I’m being simplistic, may I point to North Weald and West Malling, both of which had great shows (Fighter Meet and Great Warbirds) both of which eventually stopped because they lot money. GWbirds splutted out, very sadly, after using Wroughton, so West Malling’s demise wasn’t the problem per se.

Yes, it’s more complex (I’ve done a hatchet summary) but the simple fact remains – shows have to break even. That requires review and analysis. That requires listening and responding to comment, from all areas (not doing what anybody may ask, just listening and reacting apropriately) and finally, the number of toys or the types of toys is irrelevant. The best displays for me that I saw last year was at DX, where a SAA 747 blew my socks off and a bloke in a microlight flew with a bunch of birds. Commentry, timing, quality.
Cheers

PS Grease guns at dawn behind hangar one if you call me a pommie winger… 😀

Last year was my first Legends. Many said it did not reach the standards of previous years. There was a lot of comment about what did and didn’t appear and even more about what appeared one day and not the next. There was also tragedy. I was not there to see it and thought long and hard about whether I would actually go on the sunday. But I went…

I saw nine Spitfires in the air at once and the implication of what that sight meant to our not too distant history brought tears to my eyes. I saw no boring tailchases, just dedicated pilots and their ground staff giving wings to my dreams. The Hurricane didn’t fly, nor the Lavochkin, maybe other items that were expected weren’t there. It did not and does not matter to me. I saw two Ju52’s in the air at once. I did the flightline walk (wheel?), I was in great company, Moggy, Lofty, Ashley, Snapper and Mr. and Mrs. Dezz and anyone else I met up with that day who I have forgotten to mention. I have one complaint, those three hours just went by far too quickly. Roll on this years, and I hope I will have no complaints, just be grateful for what I am priveleged to see and not bemoan what I can’t.

Regards,

kev35

Nice to see you back Digby.. we have missed your wit!!! 😀

I would have to agree with my colonial friend from Texas about the number of airplanes that could be passing across the Atlantic this summer. With the value of the Euro going up 25% against the US Dollar these past few months that P-51 that was going to cost 1.2 million Euro is now only 900K.

observation, please read (pretty please?)

Although somewhat heated, i can understand where you are coming from Invader. We are very lucky over here, and sometimes we have to pinch ourselves. We must not take what we have for granted!

of course i could see the direction of this thread from the outset…

First wave of posts are directed at how this years show just wont be the same, lacking in aircraft, moan, gripe, etc…

Second wave of posts are from the opposing party directed at how we have to take the rough with the smooth, and this years show will be just as good as any…

Third wave of posts directed at the first wave from the points of view of the people involved in the planning of the show, do you know how much work is put into the show, why aren’t you satisfied etc…

Fourth wave of posts will be directed at ‘us brits’ from fellow international warbird fans saying how we don’t know what we’ve got, if it smacked us in the face, do you know how priviliged you are, i’ve only ever seen one spitfire and that was an airfix kit etc…

Final wave of posts will be everyone apologising for their rash statments from any of the previous post waves, though confined probably to the first and second wave. (because the internationals have hit the nail on the head!) Everyone kisses and makes up. 😉

Chris’ Final Thought ™
Sorry if this seems like a rant guys, but i hope you understand my early morning rambling and don’t take any of it to heart! I don’t mean to offend, purely enlighten! Just a music students observation of a random thread.
Now everyone give each other a hug and wish all a happy Leg Ends 04! It may be not have the same amount of planes as before, but then again it might! And whatever we do get, we should bloody thankful for, because there was a time when warbirds weren’t as cared for………..

p.s. this entire post can of course be easily combated against with the simple statement: ‘It is a public forum, these issue are meant to be discussed. It is our right dammit!’
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

You guys really need to quit your bitching. You have an airshow there that those of us in the US would die to have.

I really can’t believe you are knocking Tom Friedkin bringing his airplanes over for you all to see. He could leave them locked in a hanger. You got to see the F3Fs and A-36 fly. The F3F is something that very few have seen fly as there are only 4 capable of flight and the A-36 is the only one capable of flight. The TF-51D I will admit wasn’t the rarest airplane available but it was unique and it sure looked cool with the other two checker nosed P-51s and the P-47.

You complain about all the Mustangs and Spitfires. Do you know how many Spitfires I have seen in the air at one time together? 0. I have seen 4 seperate Spitfires fly in my life thus far but none have been in a formation together. Do you know how many Mustangs I have seen in formation together or in one place at one time? 3 in formation, 4 on the ground. I have never seen a Hurricane fly or in the flesh nor have I ever seen a Blenheim or hear a Griffon or Centaurus. I’ve also never seen the entire Cat Flight.

Also, your HFL Spitfires aren’t going anywhere right now and so you lost another Spit XIV. We lost a B-24 to you fellas if you remember that the Yankee Air Museum would have loved to acquire. As for 10 potential airplanes not being at Legends. Thats stupid. Like I said the 3 HFL airplanes won’t be gone by then. I can’t think of a Hurri that was “lost” this year to the US but you are getting another Spit flying by the show (PV202), a Buchon, the Seafire possibly, possibly the Tempest II, then the Pink Spit is coming back as well as the RNHF Sea Fury. Thats 6 airplanes right now. Then you have the P-51B and if you are lucky (and a longshot) the P-39 will be there. Who knows what Friedkin might show up with and if you read into Ashley’s post it sounds like a P-38 might just be there after all. Even if none of those 8 or 9 I mentioned show up, you still have one hell of an airshow. There are other potential planes that could show up too if you really think about it.

Get a grip fellas and appreciate what you have. It could be nothing.