The recent publicity about the spits that Historic Flying are selling and the asking prices given (£1.35m) got me thinking about the earlier threads about aircraft scrapping after the war.
we have all heard the tales about being able to buy a bomber for £150 or a fighter for £50 but what do these aircraft fetch these days when they are sold as possible rebuild projects.
without wanting to reopen the debate about rebuilding aircraft involved in fatal accidents, the accident that PL983 was involved in didn`t look like it left much to be rebuilt. Given that companys can now manufacture new build fuselage and wing sections does this mean the true value goes with the identity ?
What would the remains of a warbird that had been involved in an accident in recent years be worth compared to say one of the well preserved projects raised from Russian lakes etc ?
can anyone answer these questions in general terms while still respecting the privacy of any owners/rebuilders ?
By: HighBack - 4th March 2004 at 23:56
Does anyone know what the asking price was for the ME109 that Jim Pearce was selling recently ?
By: Bograt - 4th March 2004 at 13:34
We seem to accept that the VW main dealer will charge £80 plus an hour to change the oil in our Polo but think that rebuilding the very finest of vintage aircraft should command but a fraction of that hourly rate.
So true, Mark12. In my line of work I have to reconcile labour invoices for work on BAe146’s. We are now (as of 2004) being charged £33 per hour. It’s the industry average, and the work involved in fixing our aircraft is very detailed and requires a high level of skill. I don’t know what HFL charge for their labour to an outside party, but it can’t be much adrift of that.
Of course, it doesn’t cost the engineering outfit that much to employ one man for one hour, and that’s where the sums would add up when HFL are building an aircraft to sell on. But if you were to hand a pile of bits over to HFL and say ‘rebuild that!’ then at thirty three quid per hour you would very soon exceed £1 mil. once all the bits were included. Perhaps they work on an agreed total project price in situations like that.
Like Mark V says, provenance is everything, much like any antique.
By: Mark V - 4th March 2004 at 11:02
Originally posted by HighBack
another example that springs to mind is TFC MK9 Spitfire wreck that is in store awaiting rebuild , what would a wreck like this from Russia etc cost to purchase compared to a new build airframe from say Airframe Assemblies ?
The ‘wreck’ should always the starting point as purchasing a ‘new-build’ airframe is perhaps not advisable if one is to avoid accuastions of the finished article being a ‘replica’. In the past such aircraft (those that some have perceived as new build) have sold for considerably less than ‘original’ airframes. If it were my money I would be sure to start with at least a part of an airframe that I can be confident has a known military serial number and if possible, some combat history. It may be that the finished article contains only a very small amount of the structure of that airframe but the ‘market’ still perceives this as a ‘re-build’ and values will be assured.
By: Firebird - 4th March 2004 at 08:03
It must be nice then, when your accountant tells you to,
“Go buy a Spitfire, you need a tax right-off”
😀 😉
By: Mark12 - 4th March 2004 at 07:22
An accountant, a dispassionate project manager and a ‘sensible’ business plan would tell you that there is nearer £2m, rather than £1m, of engineering in a Spitfire.
We seem to accept that the VW main dealer will charge £80 plus an hour to change the oil in our Polo but think that rebuilding the very finest of vintage aircraft should command but a fraction of that hourly rate.
The market is the market and typically a ‘starter kit’ Spitfire will command plus or minus on 15% of the current perceived value.
To anybody contemplating owning a flying Spitfire, the accountant will tell you the cheapest route is to actually buy a flying example.
Mark
By: HighBack - 4th March 2004 at 02:04
Some interesting points Airbedane, would love to know more about the costs of rebuilding warbirds, for example if Hawker Restorations can manufacture new hurricane airframes and parts what is the value of a hurricane wreck raised from a lake but with an original RAF serial number compared to a new build example ? another example that springs to mind is TFC MK9 Spitfire wreck that is in store awaiting rebuild , what would a wreck like this from Russia etc cost to purchase compared to a new build airframe from say Airframe Assemblies ? It would be interesting to know more about the costs involved in rebuilding these aircraft, What would it cost to purchase a wreck, and more importantly what costs are involved in rebuilding it to the complete/airworthy state where it is worth upwards of £1M ?
By: Airbedane - 3rd March 2004 at 19:40
I can’t answer the title question as any aircraft is only worth what people will pay for it – in recent years, I’ve seen Spitfires go from £100K to £750K to £300K and back to nearly £1m. However, within the last five years I’ve heard that a new-build Hurricane would cost aound £750K, whereas a sympathetic restoration costs around £1.5M – it’s a question of labour costs and the additional cost of verifying the state of the original material.
By: HighBack - 3rd March 2004 at 19:04
Bump
Anyone help with this one ?
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March 2, 2004 at 8:40 pm