Spitfire camoflauge question

453 Squadron RAAF – Spitfire IX

Hi there – attached an excellent colour photo taken at RAF Ford in May 1944 I believe. It clearly shows the colours of the IX in the background and the first part of the letter F. One thing you will find is that they, for example, used both the layout FU-Z and Z-FU on the left hand side, I have photo’s of both versions.

Quite often on e-bay you can see someone selling the well known Barry Price painting/print of Z-FU taking off from Ford in June 1944 – or maybe it’s B.11 Longues-sur-Mer ?

I have the unofficial squadron history “Defeat to Victory” which lists all of the squadron code letters and the serials that went with them – so if you want anything just ask? I also have lots of b/w photo’s of the squadron. Not all clearly showing the codes though. Hope it helps – don’t forget to leave a copy of your final work. cheers – Allan

Originally posted by Kfir
ive got it how i want it at the moment, and when its finished ill post a screenshot here.

Kfir, what I failed to mention was that the Spitfire silhouette in your work looks rather weird. There is something wrong about the proportions to me, the rudder is wrong in shape (I doubt if there were many Mk IXs with this rudder shape at that time), and the nose does not look right, either.
Also, I don’t think the ‘FU’ code had a black outline (that’s what it looks like in your profile). It was just the narrow bit of the original camouflage around the codes when they were not overpainted with the black-and-white bands.
V.

Anne,

TB863 was TOC 453 Sqd. 24 March 1945 and coded FU-P.

This is a pretty accurate livery.

Mark

Do the people who did the paint job on TB863 know something I don’t, (quite likely s’pose) or did they just get it wrong?

S’pose they know something I didn’t

Thanks

Anne:D

Roundel is correct from March 1945 production.

Mark

Just a thought.

If you look at the photo of Dazs’ TB863, for some reason it’s got C type roundels on it’s upper wing while the war time shot shows the more usual B type. Do the people who did the paint job on TB863 know something I don’t, (quite likely s’pose) or did they just get it wrong?

Anne:confused:

Originally posted by Flood
Just checked Air Britains Squadrons of the RAF & Commonwealth 1918~1988 and there is a very small pic of FU*Z (or Z*FU) in D-day markings but with the same dark camouflage pattern as the profile of MK260 – FU*K.
How many Zs were there in D-day markings?

Flood.

This is the pic to which I referred.
Looks like the skin you have made up has the roundel too far back – since the first white band is equel in width to its fellows in the pictures…

Flood.

OK. thanks for the info. 🙂

ive got it how i want it at the moment, and when its finished ill post a screenshot here.

thanks for all the info and help!

Mark, I’m flattered.

Kfir, as far as I understand, what you’re aiming at is realistic effect in 3D imagery rather 100% historical accuracy, and you’re not trying to portray any particular machine, but just ‘a representative 453 Spitfire’?
My comments below are based on that assumption.
If I am wrong, I will gladly see a new thread on greys on RAF Spitfire’s, but I’m afraid it might end up like the one on Mk IX wing ‘chimney pots’.

As for 453 Spitfire IXs, I suggest Ventura’s “ANZACS Spitfires” by Malcolm Laird (I’m not sure this is the exact title, you can find it at their website, or some friendly chap will correct me in a minute).

As for good colour effect, I believe you can base yourself on airshow photos, such as this lovely one placed here by our Scottish friend (who, I hope, will one day recover from his team’s yesterday’s beating…). Even if they are not 100% accurate historically, that is what everyone thinks of as a Spitfire in flight, so if truth was different, the worse for the truth.

Colour profiles (sorry Dan!) are not a good source of info at all, especially those on the web. One photo is much better than a dozen colour profiles based on it, especially as they will all be different!
The FU-Z one you started with looks particularly out of the ordinary with that wide white band.

Not sure if I really added to anyone’s knowledge here…
V.

Dark or light camouflage?

In my experience the range of camouflage tonal variation that we see in period Spitfire photographs can be put down to a number reasons.

1) Tolerance on the paint colour from the supplier – minimal.

2) Fading and weathering due to exposure – substantial.

3) Photographic contrast effects due to the usage of ‘pan’ or ‘ortho’ film of the day.

4) The popular use of lens filters of the day.

5) Contrast effects generated at initial processing of the film.

6) Contrast effects induced by repeated photographic copying by historians/enthusiasts.

In the case of the photograph in question I believe it is ‘hard line’ painted using the approved ‘mats’ giving a strong definition or demarcation of the two camouflage colours. This effect is greatly reduced when ‘soft line’ painted without the mats and a 2-3 inch overspray condition is generated – the latter being more photogenic in my view.

Now ‘Voy Tech’ knows quite a lot about this. Please comment.

Mark

again, thanks a lot. 🙂

Just checked Air Britains Squadrons of the RAF & Commonwealth 1918~1988 and there is a very small pic of FU*Z (or Z*FU) in D-day markings but with the same dark camouflage pattern as the profile of MK260 – FU*K.
How many Zs were there in D-day markings?

Flood.

Dan, that Spitfire’s saying a naughty word! 😀

I’m amazed it didn’t get bleeped out by the censor 😉

Might want to go here:

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/digitalcolourchartswm_1.htm

Get the RAF charts and use that to match the colors.

Here is the 453 Spit IX I did a while back as a profile

Do note that the Squadron codes on the left side are not reflected on the right. the FU is forward of the roundel.

Dan

No problem.

SCORE! thanks man 🙂

Just your lucky day – I’ve happened upon a ton of pictures of TB863 – some REALLY nice ones, too HERE

That low-level shot of TB863 is one of my favourites of all time – it jsut screams out HORSEPOWER, like in Empire of the Sun 😀

I’ll have a scout around for more pics of her – there’s also a few of her in D-Day markings, too.

ok it seems after looking at other pics the colours is roughly between the first and second pics. so i just have to darken my work down. though more information on 453 spitfires would be welcome (and pictures!!) 🙂 😎

There’s bound to be more pics of ‘863 around which show her off better than that, or failing that you could ask Spitfire ‘guru’ Mark12 on this forum!