Thunderbirds F16 Ejection pic

Originally posted by mike currill
375mph in 6 feet

How many g is that?! Seems to me that would kill you anyway:eek:

T-38 crash

Here is a little I dug up: It was apparently- also – (pilot error) – Sorry – human factors! 😮 The General wouldn’t accept it (“Thunderbirds don’t make mistakes!”) :rolleyes:
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From: [email]thunder@rmii.com[/email] (Ed Rasimus)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: diamond crash
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:32:45 GMT

“C.D. Damron” wrote:

>If you were there, you must be aware of alternate interpretations of the
>evidence and the controversy regarding the details of the accident
>report.
>
>Although everyone agreed that the lead pilot realized his situation
>before impact and probably had both hands on the stick, as evidenced by
>the load relief equipment, the controversy took off when the “stuck
>stab” theory was introduced.
>
>Every Air Force and Navy pilot laughed at the idea. It wouldn’t be the
>first time that an accident report reflected the desires of everyone
>involved.
–snip–
>
>Cradlets wrote:
>>
>> Aviation Week published a condensed but very detailed version of the Official
>> Accident Report,

—snipped—

>> There were photos
>> of pieces including the “load relief cylinder”which is something like a shock
>> absorber in the stabilator control system for smoothing out rough air
>> transients, which on Lead’s aircraft was sheared off fully extended but were
>> found fully retracted (normal position) on the other three aircraft.
>> Estimating the huge pull force required to fully extend the cylinder was how
>> they determined Lead had both hands on the stick.

You are right that all Thunderbird practices and shows are video taped
for team debrief and analysis.

The accident report was very controversial. As the only TAC unit other
than the ‘Birds flying the T-38, the 479th TFW at Holloman was tasked
to supply both the Flying Safety Officer member and Pilot member to
the accident investigation board. Both pilots were out of my unit, the
435th TFTS.

The initial report of the board was a finding of pilot error. The lead
aircraft had topped out on the loop at an altitude below the minimum
required to insure a safe recovery. Failure to recognize the altitude
and continuation of the maneuver to the pull through meant that after
reaching about 60 degrees nose low inverted, the formation was in a
position from which recovery was no longer possible.

There was evidence reported that the control stick and linkages were
deformed probably due to pilot effort to pull through at whatever G
was available.

When the report was submitted, General Creech returned it and
reconvened the board with the statement that “Thunderbirds do not
commit pilot errors.” Command guidance was to come up with another
cause.

That was when the “shock absorber” was invented as the culprit. What
made the report a laughingstock for T-38 pilots (although acceptable
to Gen. Creech and the general public) was the fact that with 160
AT-38B aircraft on the ramp at Holloman, with at least 1000
maintainers and more than 200 Talon IPs on the base and with more than
20 years experience operating the airplane for the USAF, no one had
ever before heard of the “shock absorber” and no one could find any
reference to such a gadget in the control system schematics.

Ed Rasimus *** Peak Computing Magazine
Fighter Pilot (ret) *** (http://peak-computing.com)
*** Ziff-Davis Interactive
*** (http://www.zdnet.com)

Search for Google’s copy of this article
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From: [email]thunder@rmii.com[/email] (Ed Rasimus)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: diamond crash
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:25:14 GMT

“Grady L. Rockett” wrote:

>I was stationed at Nellis at that time assigned as
>a pilot with the 64th Aggressor Squadron. Norm
>Lowery, Thunderbird Lead, was a friend of mine.
>That said, I and every other pilot at Nellis knew
>the truth – Norm screwed up. One member of the
>investigation team was a former Thunderbird who
>wrote a dissenting report that said, in essence,
>Norm screwed up. Creech quashed it.
>
I flew F-4s with Norm out of Torrejon during the late ’70s. I was Ops
Officer of the 613th TFS, and Norm was operating down the street in
the 614th.

He was a good guy and a good fighter pilot. He went from TJ to an
exchange posting with the RAF to Luechars to fly Lightnings.

But, you’re absolutely right on the “screwed up” part. We all do/did
with some varying degrees of regularity.

Ed Rasimus *** Peak Computing Magazine
Fighter Pilot (ret) *** (http://peak-computing.com)
*** Ziff-Davis Interactive
*** (http://www.zdnet.com)

Search for Google’s copy of this article
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http://yarchive.net/mil/thunderbird_crash.html

Cool photographer! 😎 From one of the other threads about this picture there is a Belgian video taken from the public side. One very large part – the engine? – stops right outside the tower.

Old Git

The practise session that very nearly ended the Thunderbirds was to four T-38’s coming out of a loop. I have an old Flight b+w photograph somewhere showing four black holes in the dessert. All four pilots perished. But that is what good formation flying is all about. You follow the leader. There was speculation about a control restriction – FOD? – to the leader’ aircraft, but I have not seen or heard more.

Best regard
atc pal

Originally posted by Moggy C
The force needed to chuck a zero/zero ejection seat out of the cockpit is pretty considerable. I’d guess that the blast from the seat totalled the camera.

Moggy

Apparently the seat accelerates from 0-60mph in 4 inches and 375mph in 6 feet, now that is one hell of a kick up the backside.

Red Beast,

I agree with your sentiments, however, the Reds are not permitted to fly over the crowd at civilian displays in the UK.

And they can change formation without flying away from the crowd for 5 minutes……

Greetings,
Worth remembering that the Red Sparrows like to drop a fully functioning aircraft ocasionally. However, being British & shy, they do it at the practice sessions in the Med, pre season, or drop the a/c into the sea during over water displays, unlike these showy Yanks.

Only problem is that the Reds do still fly over & towards the crowd. Not sensible.
Yo,

Originally posted by RobAnt
However, it does raise a techy question, which someone might be able to answer.

When he bangs out the camera doesn’t continue to roll, and there still seems to be a little room below the plane before the crash.

Does pulling the handle (or whatever) turn off all the electrics too? I’m sure he didn’t hang around just to switch everything off.

The force needed to chuck a zero/zero ejection seat out of the cockpit is pretty considerable. I’d guess that the blast from the seat totalled the camera.

Moggy

Originally posted by Chad Veich
I suppose the obvious answer is when they stop flying them. However, the news article linked to above states that this was only the second incident the T-birds have had with the F-16 which they have been flying since ’83. One accident every ten years is phenomenal if you ask me, considering the number of hours flown both during shows and practicing.

I seem to remember the Thunderbirds had a major accident in the seventies during practising a routine called the “Mirror formation” where one plane flew right underneath another upside down. I think 3 or 4 aircraft (F-5’s?)were lost in the accident and the routine was dropped. I may be wrong but I am sure I read something about it in “AIR PICTORIAL” at the time.

Originally posted by Corsair166b

When are the thunderbirds gonna quit losing planes?

Mark

I suppose the obvious answer is when they stop flying them. However, the news article linked to above states that this was only the second incident the T-birds have had with the F-16 which they have been flying since ’83. One accident every ten years is phenomenal if you ask me, considering the number of hours flown both during shows and practicing.

That is one lucky SOB.

However, it does raise a techy question, which someone might be able to answer.

When he bangs out the camera doesn’t continue to roll, and there still seems to be a little room below the plane before the crash.

Does pulling the handle (or whatever) turn off all the electrics too? I’m sure he didn’t hang around just to switch everything off.

Great shame about his career – he is obviously very talented, and I hope he gets the opportunity to fly again soon. After all, many F1 drivers smash their equipment up on a more than regular basis – it might not be quite as expensive per unit, but they’re still the elite of the elite.

Originally posted by Corsair166b
When are the thunderbirds gonna quit losing planes?

When there are none left?

When the pilots have to pay for the damage themselves?

When they get an aircraft with a propellor on the front?

😀 😉 :p

Hmmm…sure appears to be the real deal, does’nt it? i got this photo on e-mail earlier this week and more than a few folks thought that the Thunderbird colors were applied through photoshop, but it would appear this incident was genuine….

When are the thunderbirds gonna quit losing planes?

Mark

This is for real Mark.

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_05a/briefs/186582-1.html

There is speculation that the photo has been ‘photoshopped’ and the Thunderbirds colors added afterwards, i don’t recall hearing anything about the Thunderbirds losing an F-16 in such a manner recently, but then I don’t keep track….we DID lose an F-16 straight down the runway at an airshow in Idaho (I believe) late last summer, might this be the one, with colors applied later?

Mark

Seems a shame to end his career for a mistake that anybody could make. Especially since you know he would NEVER make that mistake again!

Surprised he didn’t roll out while inverted instead of pulling through, the picture must have looked all wrong. He certainly seemed to keep his cool though, no sign of panic. No time for indecision there…:eek:

Here’s a link to the same photo, the outcome of the equiry and the in cockpit camera footage (looking backwards toward the pilot) of the final 24 seconds of the flight including the bang out, 0.8 of second before terra firma played a part in things.

As a result of not setting the alitimeter correctly the guy now pilots a desk.

http://www.my-mc.com/messages/13427/29391.html

Now that’s a fantastic shot!