Something a little different that the usual “best of” thread, started by the Spits and Hurris discussion.
Think of aircraft which served through the entire length of world war 2. Now think of those which were the most changed in appearance over that time, and those which were the least changed. (Don’t count aircraft like the DC-3 or other transports – they generally didn’t have many versions – restrict your thoughts to bombers and fighters.
Which were the most altered visually over their service life?
Which aircraft were least changed? The Hurricane for example, didn’t change all that much in appearance from the prototype to the last variant in 1944. In fact, it’s my nomination for this category, together with the P-39.
See if this gets some conversation going. The only rule is that it had to have at least flown as a prototype by September 39, and still been in service (not necessarily still in manufacture) by September ’45. That should narrow the field quite a bit.
If the field proves to be too narrow, then nominate aircraft which first flew between those dates and had been dramatically altered in appearance by the end of the war.
Regards
Wombat
By: Ant.H - 23rd February 2003 at 12:39
RE: Most and least changed
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-02-03 AT 12:41 PM (GMT)]Hi Wombat,
The Fw189 was flying by 1938 so it makes the grade.Although production terminated in 1944,it remained in service till the end of hostilities.I’ve included a few pics-one of the first prototype,another of the second,and the third of a production version-spot the difference!!
The ‘family’ of Curtiss Hawks is certainly a good candidate for Most Changed.I hadn’t really considered it before,but if you think about it,it changed almost wholesale from beginning of radial engined Hawk/Mohawk production up until the Merlin and Allison powered Warhawks.As a side note,the low back version was the Packard Merlin powered P40Q.Only one was built,and this was destroyed during a post war air race.
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By: Wombat - 22nd February 2003 at 23:59
RE: Most and least changed
Fellows,
Neither the Lanc nor the Lancastrian fit the criteria. The Lancastrian was a transport, and as I said, they seldom changed much over their working lives, so they were out.
The Lanc didn’t fly until well after the war commenced, though the Manchester did. However, as the Lanc was DIRECTLY related to and evolved from the Manchester, it’s fair to say that its appearance changed dramatically over its entire service life, so I’m not sure if it should be excluded from “least changed” and considered for “most changed”.
Let’s not bog down with this individual aircraft – any other nominees for most/least?
I agree with Ant that the Spitfire changed totally during its life, yet somehow retained its overall characteristic shape. A nominee for “most changed” for sure.
P-51? Nup – cutting down the rear fuselage and upgrading to a Merlin spelled out the majority of the changes – later production versions had taller fins or lightweight construction, but the P-51 prototype didn’t fly until 1940 or thereabouts, anyway. Doesn’t rate in this competition.
P-40? Later versions were definitely different around the nose, and they even tried a bubble canopy, though I can’t remember if the bubble canopy entered service or remained experimental. In the running for “most changed”.
Stuka? Same as the P-40. By 1939, the Ju-87B was in service, and it finished the war as a Ju-87D or G, which was extensively changed around the nose. An also ran, perhaps.
FW-189? When did it first fly? A good nomination, but does it meet the criteria.
Anyway, keep them coming.
Regards
Wombat
By: Ant.H - 22nd February 2003 at 15:43
RE: Most and least changed
Here’s a piccy of a Lancastrian.The main changes were to do with internal fittings for the passanger cabin and the addition of various cargo and luggage bays,one of which was in the extended nose.Basically,the Lancastrian was a Lanc with it’s military bits and pieces stripped out and some civvy creature comforts installed.The basic airframe itself was little changed.
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By: Merlin3945 - 22nd February 2003 at 14:15
RE: Most and least changed
The Lanc didnt change much but my question is:-
Was the Lancastrian version (civil people carrier) changed much in appearance.
Merlin
By: Bluebird Mike - 22nd February 2003 at 13:42
RE: Most and least changed
‘Unlike the Manchester…’
Well, I was talking about the Lancaster, a different type you see…and very contrary to popular misconception, Roy Chadwick-signed Avro documents still exist which prove that a ‘four engined Manchester’ was thought of/desired WAY before it actually became an operational failure-thus, the Lancaster was not strictly ‘born out of failure’ as the story always goes after all, but actually planned along. Oh well, you try and get the whole general aviation public to listen to/accept THAT one!
So to re-state my original point, the operational Lancaster airframe barely changed throughout it’s whole career.
By: Ant.H - 22nd February 2003 at 12:16
RE: Most and least changed
I’d say the Spit would have to take the award for the most changed warplane,possibly of all time.There was barely a nut and bolt interchangable between the first and the last examples to come off the line.Something like the P51 comes close when you consider the change of engine,cut down fuselage and then the experimental long range/light wieght models.
One of the least changed for me would be something like the Fw189, the operatonal version being virtually unchanged from the prototype,which is a sign of a sound design from the outset.
By: Snapper - 22nd February 2003 at 11:29
RE: Most and least changed
Unlike the Manchester, which they had to fart around with to get something usable…..
By: Bluebird Mike - 22nd February 2003 at 10:58
RE: Most and least changed
Well, ignoring the specified inclusion dates completely, the Lanc barely changed in appearance for all of it’s war life-apart from that little hiccup batch with those ugly round engines on of course!
See, if you get it right on the drawing board, you don’t have to keep farting around with it afterwards…
By: Snapper - 22nd February 2003 at 10:33
RE: Most and least changed
Well, until the Griffon engine, the Spit stayed pretty much the same except for the fuselage being cropped down to a low back, cannon wings, clipped or extended wing-tips, pointy tail, amount of propellor blades. Bugger.
That leaves the 109, P40 (was it still in service?) Stuka (was it still in service?) and the Gladiator (or do I mean Swordfish? I’m going back to bed).
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February 22, 2003 at 9:34 am