Re-enactors, Actors and medals

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

Hi Keith Mac,
I entirely agree with you.
There is a very good reason why I posted this message originally, I will sit tight & see what else develops before I reveal my reason for the original post.
Thanks to everyone for coming in on this subject.
Halibag

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

Hi Halibag, No I’ve no problem with the wearing of medals in the circumstances you describe, just the dishonest wearing of medals for self glorification.
Keith Mac

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

To Kieth Mac,
I fully understand your sentiments regarding the wearing of uniforms/medals, however, you state you would feel very angry if someone was wearing medals they were not entitled to, does this cover the topic we are currently discussing, i.e. Actors & Re-enactors? For as I mentioned previously, I too would be annoyed to see someone wearing a medal they were not entitled to, out of context. i.e. walking down the street whilst doing the shopping.
Halibag.

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

I would find it pretty hard to believe that anyone would take serious exception to someone portraying an airman at a re-enactment – I suppose there are always a minority of people who would object, but on balance I am totally in favour as long as it is done with dignity and respect. It is perefctly reasonable to wear medal ribbons in the interests of accuracy. The promotion of servicemen (& women) who were killed in conflict, and hopefully the perpetuation of their memory and sacrifice is the important thing here and far outweighs any petty politics on this issue.

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

Halibag,
If you are seriously into re-enactment,have or do you, or anyone from your ‘unit’ visit/post to the UK WW2 Living History Forum?
It’s the best way of communicating with other groups in the UK.
Go to:-
http://www.delphiforums.com/
In the yellow border on the left side click on ‘Hobbies & Crafts’. From there click on the ‘next 10 >>’ icon at the bottom of the page until you see ‘UK WW2 Living History Forum’ title. Click on this and enter as ‘guest’ or create a login to post items. Hope to see you there.

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

as regards the wearing of medals, anyone who has earnt a medal ever, can wear it wherever they want, as long as they keep to the rules set out, as to how they wear it. as for actors wearing ribbons and medals, actors are there to portray a character, they cannot do this accurately if they do not wear what the person they are portraying would have worn. as far as authentic uniforms go-and the tom hanks thing mentioned above. it is known that many WW2 RAF officers did in fact wear non comm uniform, it was made of a rougher material, and was thicker, therefore warmer, always a good thing at 10 000ft. and some non comms wore officers cut clothing, with hidden tapes, in case they were shot down, so that they could pass as an officer to hopefully receive better treatment.

coanda

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

Well, it seems I have struck a chord here, and about time too.
Just for the record, I never have & never will show any disrespect to veterans, rank, insignia or uniforms. OK, that’s out of the way.
I too am an ex serviceman of the 1980’s, and so, there is absolutely no way I could have even been thought about in the 1940’s. Whilst serving, it was also drummed into us “Don’t wear uniform in ‘Civvy Street’.” For obvious security reasons.
I equally agree that there is nothing better than having a re-enactor taking on the role of an airman (or soldier) at an airshow, to answer questions put to them by the bystanders, be them veterans or youngsters, so long as his outward appearance is authentic (and passes the 3ft test).
The group I am associated with, ensures that each of it’s members who take on a particular role actually get to know all about the intricacies of that role, for example our Navigator is fully conversant with a Navigators duties, same with our gunners, wireless operator & so on.
We have formed a crew, each member of our crew wears a rank which is appropriate to his outward appearance, this is simply for authenticity. After all, it is no good having a sixteen year old portraying an Air Vice Marshal & equally it would be pretty unauthentic having someone aged 55 portraying an AC2. Most of our group have some military background, be it armed forces or one of the Cadet organisations, so drill and discipline are not an issue. Hair & jewelery are always checked for accuracy, and so are the uniforms.
Our “Skipper” wears the rank of Squadron Leader. He does this for a number of reasons: He also runs the group, organises everything, is responsible for “hiring & firing” of members, he is easy to direct to, and finally judging by his outward appearance, he more than likely WOULD have been a Squadron Leader at that time. Now then, here’s the crux of the matter… Also on the “Skipper’s” uniforms, both battle dress & service dress, he sport’s a DFC ribbon! Again, his reason for wearing the ribbon is simply that on the ballance of probabilities alone, by his age, rank & experience, he probably would indeed have been awarded a DFC. This is in no way a matter of disrespect, nor is it a snub to the many many aircrew who did not recieve an award for bravery, but it is purely a part of the overall role he portrays. Our “Skipper” is on his second tour with Bomber Command & everyone concerned with our group agrees that this is truly an authentic portrayal. The Skipper incidentally is the only one who is wearing a ribbon.
Our crew has been seen & spoken to by a number of high ranking currently serving RAF officers & dignitaries, all who thought our portrayal was genuine, the same can be said by the many veterans who meet our group, they all think our portrayal is authentic.
There are never any REAL medals worn, we have no requirement for that, and would have to refuse anyone’s request to do so, there is just the one DFC ribbon.
We only wear the uniforms at organised events such as air shows and re-enactment weekends, so, the question is again… “Are we offending anyone, if so, why, and is there any legislation around to cover this subject?”
All your comments to date have been super, please keep them coming in & I will do my utmost to come back with answers.
Halibag

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

As a re-enactor of a number of years I can say that this is a touchy subject even within the re-enactment circles. I can say that all the recognised and well runs societies portraying British/Commonwealth units DO NOT allow the wearing of campaign or gallantry medals. Most of these re-enactment groups have close ties with various veterans organisations and the majority of those left have no problem with what we do, as long as what ever we do is historically correct. The trouble is there are many individuals who turn up at forties theme events in a uniform and such like that do wear medal ribbons. These people are not true historical re-enactors and treat it all as some sort of fancy dress event and are usually given short shrift by any of us. Rank is less of a problem, but a lot of the groups have ex-service personnel and they will often wear the rank that they had when ‘in’.
As for actors, well, it’s a neccessary item if someone is portraying a particlar person in a film. I mean it would look silly if a film was made about Guy Gibson, post Dams raid, and the actor wasn’t wearing a VC ribbon. Having said that, and from my experience of working with film companies on wartime sets, they are not really interested in too much historical accuracy I’m afraid, despite what Speilberg and others would have you believe. They will go to great lengths and expense for some things and then ignore other blindingly obvious errors!! Their attitude when any error is pointed out to them on set is one of, “It’s not in the script so it can’t be changed and anyway nobody will notice luvvy darling”……..
Only by us ‘anoraks’ that is!

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

Hi Halibag, I’ve just retired after 39 years in the RAF, so I suppose I’m a “veteran”. Firstly actors. You can’t make a film about the military without having actors in uniform. Generally speaking the researchers get it right and the uniforms are OK, but I recently saw a film starring Tom Hanks playing a wounded RAF Mustang pilot in Italy during WW2. In some scenes he was in correct Flt Lt uniform, in others he was wearing an airman’s uniform with incorrectly applied rank insignia. To make things even worse he had a collar attached shirt, an item of clothing not issued by the RAF until the late 1960’s!! Minor points, but irritating if you know it’s wrong. (The markings on the Mustang were also wrong! Then there are re enactors, again I’ve no real objection provided they keep it accurate and conform to the regulations, for example short hair and no visible jewellery to give but 2 examples. Again the uniforms should be worn in a controlled environment and not just worn to “show off”. As to legalities, it is illegal for anyone not serving in HM Forces to wear the current pattern uniform. There are also strict rules governing when Serving Personnel can wear uniform when off duty. These rules were introduced to prevent servicemen becoming terrorist targets. Having just retired, I can no longer wear any of my uniforms, but can wear my medals on specific occasions. They were earned, and I would be very angry to see them worn by anyone who had no entitlement. My uniforms have been donated to the Museum of Flight at East Fortune, if they can make use of them, then that’s the best place for them.
Yours
KeithMac

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

I have no real problem with actors wearing medals…if it’s part of the costume then that’s how it should be.

I do remember seeing a TV programme a few years ago, where re-enactors were on a trip to France (I think ?), with their military vehicles etc.

One of the Brits spotted a French man wearing medals on his uniform, and him and his mates then went over to the Frenchy to give him a good brow-beating and told him to get them off because he was obviously not entitled to them…..needless to say he took them off, because he didn’t want to be beaten up by 3 or 4 big burly brits.

Odd thing was though….all the Brits were in WWII uniforms which they were also not entitled to wear…………and if I remember rightly 1 or 2 of them also had medal ribbons on.

I have never really had an opinion on this matter….and I’m not sure if I do now.

TTFN
Mick

RE: Re-enactors, Actors and medals

Over here in the U.S. there are several groups that are dedicated to preserving the memory of U.S. soldiers by doing shows in uniform. I belong to the Airmans Preservation Society…and while I am not as active as I used to be…doing the “camps” at airshows was great fun. The people are really responsive to those “hanging” around a Mustang or B-17 while in uniform to answer questions. I think the biggest kick I got out of it was the kids. They are the most important factor in preserving the memory of the men and women that sacrificed so much. We have a couple guys that do sport rank, and medals on dress uniforms. The most popular comment that I have heard from a veteran is “looks just like the one I had”…I have yet to hear a vet balk at the idea of guys dressing up in what is in effect thier uniforms. I wear a painted A-2 jacket almost everywhere I go…and to be quite honest I enjoy answering questions about it’s meaning.

In Gettysburg, each year, a huge staging of the battle takes place. There is nothing wrong with giving everyone a glimpse of the way it was. When you go to an airshow and see a Mustang come in, the pilot sporting a bone dome, firesuit, gloves..the whole safety show, it is neat to see a guy standing around for pictures wearing a leather helmet, goggles, mae west, and a cotton flight suit. While each person is free to do what he or she pleases, I think the people that preserve the uniforms and memorabila are just as important as the guys restoring and flying these treasures. It is all history that needs explanation and preservation.

Jim Harley