Hypothetical combat scenario between a PAF Mirage III vs an IAF Mig-23MF set during the stand off over kashmir in 1990
assume 4 x mig-23 encounter 4 x Mirage III
both are flying CAP and neither has any A2G weapons
armed with Mirage III 2 x AIM-9P and Mig-23 ( 2 x Apex and 4x APhid)
medium to low altitude , no AWACS on either side at that time
which aircraft has the edge , and what is the likely outcome in different scenarions?
thanks
By: nastle - 28th August 2018 at 02:30
The scenario should go the MiG-23’s way. BVR capability. Better agility and turn-rates at medium-to-low altitudes. What gives one pause, is the MiG’s godawful handling, poor ergonomics & cockpit visibility. The Mirage would also have the advantage of the Aim-9L, which was the best IR missile of it generation by far.
I suspect the IAF pilot would much rather go into the same fight at the stick of a MiG-21bis.
how widespread was the AIM-9L in 1990 in airforces like PAF , egyptian or turkish airforces ?
By: Yama - 27th August 2018 at 23:37
Mirage would struggle to match Flogger’s superior acceleration and combat avionics. MiG could engage and disengage with much greater probability of success particularly if led by CGI.
By: Sintra - 24th August 2018 at 14:39
that was mirage F1 which is BVR equipped while Mirage III in PAF service was not
The SAAF Mirage F1´s were not BVR equiped, actually of the 48 South African Mirage F1´s, only one third, 16 airframes, had a Cyrano radar with an air to air missile mode, but even those lacked a BVR missile, full 32 of them were “AZ”´s attack ground variants (but the South Africans went chasing Mig-21 and 23´s with the dam thing relying on the old sensor from WWI, the “eyeometer”!)
By: TomcatViP - 24th August 2018 at 13:30
that was mirage F1 which is BVR equipped while Mirage III in PAF service was not
Yes And still the F-1 had to fly low and avoid the merge…
By: Vnomad - 24th August 2018 at 09:19
The scenario should go the MiG-23’s way. BVR capability. Better agility and turn-rates at medium-to-low altitudes. What gives one pause, is the MiG’s godawful handling, poor ergonomics & cockpit visibility. The Mirage would also have the advantage of the Aim-9L, which was the best IR missile of it generation by far.
I suspect the IAF pilot would much rather go into the same fight at the stick of a MiG-21bis.
By: nastle - 24th August 2018 at 04:52
that was mirage F1 which is BVR equipped while Mirage III in PAF service was not
By: nastle - 24th August 2018 at 04:51
specifically what tactics might either side employ to maximize their advantages ?
By: BlackArcher - 24th August 2018 at 00:22
Well on paper the Mig-23 has better performance over most of the flight envelope and a medium range missile but that being said one shouldn’t count out the professionalism or skill of the PAF, they know how to get the best out of the Mirage III and fly it to its advantage.
So did the IAF. With the more capable weapon system that was equipped with a BVRAAM, they held a big advantage.
By: TomcatViP - 23rd August 2018 at 12:19
You can compare to the situation faced by the French contingent in Chad facing Lybian Mig23 or the South Africans facing similar Angolese forces: in both case the Migs (helped by SAMs) posed a considerable threat to the Mirages essentially dominating the airspace.
By: Fedaykin - 22nd August 2018 at 20:35
Well on paper the Mig-23 has better performance over most of the flight envelope and a medium range missile but that being said one shouldn’t count out the professionalism or skill of the PAF, they know how to get the best out of the Mirage III and fly it to its advantage.
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August 21, 2018 at 9:49 pm