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  • Lolek

The performance of MiG-29

At the beginning I must say, that I’m without doubt a true Fulcrum fanboy, but I will do my best to not be biased.

From the very beginning of the MiG-29 history, there was a certain legend surrounding this plane. It was established early by its spectacular airshow performances in late 80′ and early 90′. Of course big part of the myth was debunked when MiGs from the East Germany were introduced to the inventory of the Luftwaffe. However, the part concerning the superb WVR performance of the Fulcrum remained intact for several more years.

I must say that I grew up on the Fulcrum legend and the fact that it was a mainstay of our Polish Air Force until arrival of the F-16 certainly had something to do with this. However, after lecture of multiple exercise reports, pilots interviews etc. I realized that it is extremely hard to distinct the airframe performance from the performance of aircraft’s systems, most notably R-73/HMD combination, which for years remained unmatched by the Western counterparts even in the opinion of the US exchange pilots (I remember that one of them said, that in MiG-29 he is “untouchable” in the visual range, while being very critical on the aircraft itself).

In the case of for example teen fighters the situation is much clearer – for e.g. the F-16 multiple manuals and E-M diagrams can be found. For the Fulcrum we have the aerodynamic manual in Russian, which unfortunately is completely useless for me due to lack of language and aerodynamic skills necessary to extract any useful data.
Now let’s put aside all other factors: pilots skills, cockpit “switchology”, missiles, HMD, radar performance etc. – how does the MiG-29 compare in terms of pure aerodynamic performance to the contemporary fighters, like F-16, F/A-18 or Mirage 2000? To make it clear – I am not interested in the answer “who wins the dogfight”, as we all know that it can have very little to do with the airframe performance. What I would love to know, are simply the numbers: STR, ITR, corner velocity, acceleration etc. While as I indicated, I do not have skills do extract the data myself, I know there are multiple people in here, who have enough expertise to help me with this.
To be more specific, here are some of the most important questions:
– Does anyone have a reliable E-M diagram of MiG-29 calculated basing on its manual?
– How much truth is in the statement, that MiG-29 enjoys its advantage mainly in the low-speed region, as I’ve read that it both exhibits spectacular nose-pointing ability and is extremely sluggish in terms of handling in this region.
– How greatly the MiG’s performance is influenced by the fact, that it’s limited to 7G for speeds higher than 0.85M?
– What are the real advantages and disadvantages of the lack of FBW system?
– How does its roll rate compare to other fighters?
And one more thing – while I know that there is a lot of X vs Y debate in my topic, please do not turn this into a flamewar of “my fighter is better” type. Let’s focus simply on the physics.

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By: garryA - 8th December 2016 at 20:54

About Mirage 2000 (early M 53-5)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]250141[/ATTACH]

Dunno where that chart comes from, so pinch of salt thingy…

F-16A and F-16C in same condition
https://s16.postimg.org/8aqga8vbp/F_16_A_vs_F_16_C.png

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By: halloweene - 8th December 2016 at 19:09

About Mirage 2000 (early M 53-5)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]250141[/ATTACH]

Dunno where that chart comes from, so pinch of salt thingy…

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By: Grizzly01 - 8th December 2016 at 18:23

Lolek, the following information was kindly provided by Andraxxus some time ago.

All aircraft clean or with two missiles, at sea level, at 50% fuel;
F-16 block 30; 21 deg/s max sustained, 24,2 deg/s max instantenious
F-16 block 50; 20,4 deg/s max sustained, 23,8 deg/s max instantenious
MiG-29G; 21,2 deg/s max sustained, 26,9 deg/s max instantenious.

I’ve uploaded F-16 graphs several years ago, I can re-upload them with conversion graphs if you like. Previously, I mistook F-16 blk30 had 23 deg/s sustained with 50% fuel, I didn’t actually calculated the amount of fuel. These are the correct values.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?133739-How-To-Win-In-A-Dogfight-Stories-From-A-Pilot-Who-Flew-F-16s-And-MiGs&p=2202731&highlight=#post2202731

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By: Yama - 25th November 2016 at 21:38

.
The Finland had not been acquired ground or anti-ship weapons for its F-18 C/D, and most important to mention should be that pilots did not training for ground or anti ship missions with F-18 C/D since 1995 until the early 2000’s.

So its were just a political decision from Finland as I have mentioned before, then the F-18 C/ had not been officially dedicated for ground or anti -ship missions until the early 2000’s.

The same political decision would have been applied about the others competitors in 1992 with ground and anti ship capabilities or without it, like:Mirage 2000-5, JAS-39 Gripen A/B, F-16 and MiG-29.

That is all correct, but it wasn’t a political decision but strategic one. FAF was still in Cold War mindset where its 60-aircraft fleet was puny compared to say Sweden with its 400 jets, or USSR/Russia with thousands. It was thought that all fighters would be needed in air defense. There was no political obstacle in obtaining attack planes, as said Fougas and Hawks had attack role. Dedicated attack aircraft were offered to FAF (Lansen, Su-20) and sometimes it was discussed whether FAF should acquire them, but it was seen pointless to sacrifice fighter “quota” for attack planes which would have to contend with enemy air superiority and SAMs (FAF of course had no capability or resources for SEAD).

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