Anyone have images of the 30+ gun equipped YB-40?

I understood it that they fitted a 20 mil in the nose of a B-17F in the UK – a chap i know has the mod piece which went under the cheek position – the vibration was too great apparently and it bent the forward fuselage…anyone know any more gen?

Sorry – the expletive was just my reaction to seeing the photos with all those guns in the aircraft!

OK, whew. I thought you were angry with me. 🙂

What was the weight of one Ma Deuce and all of its associated equipment? Mounts, ammo, etc…?

2 nose turrets? Was that heavier than the single quad turret found in the RAF’s Lancasters/other bombers?

That’s probably a bad comparison since the RAF planes used the lighter 0.303s.

Sorry – the expletive was just my reaction to seeing the photos with all those guns in the aircraft!

Now it’s my turn – yes, there was a similar proposal with the Liberator, this time called XB-41 and YB-41. One XB-41 was converted (41-11822, a former B-24D built by Consolidated at San Diego) to carry 14 .50 machineguns. Two nose turrets (one upper one low replacing the bomb-aiming window), two upper fuselage turrets, two waist turrets and a tail turret each with two guns. It was discontinued not only because of the additional weight which would make it unable to keep up with it’s bombing compadres, but also because the centre of gravity had moved which made the XB-41 very unstable. Because of this and the experience with the YB-40s, the whole project got canned. 41-11822 got it’s guns and armour stripped and became a TB-24D trainer.

The official USAF Museum site with an image of the Liberator is at http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b3-90.htm

What was the weight of one Ma Deuce and all of its associated equipment? Mounts, ammo, etc…?

2 nose turrets? Was that heavier than the single quad turret found in the RAF’s Lancasters/other bomers?

Sorry – just the Fortress because the book was going for £2.99 or some silly price and it looked like it contained lots of info not usually seen in the normal Everybodys Book Of… rubbish.
I was joking about Anna – you besmirched my reputation and then had a go at Anna too!;) I shall crawl back to the debating society now…

Flood.™

Now it’s my turn – yes, there was a similar proposal with the Liberator, this time called XB-41 and YB-41. One XB-41 was converted (41-11822, a former B-24D built by Consolidated at San Diego) to carry 14 .50 machineguns. Two nose turrets (one upper one low replacing the bomb-aiming window), two upper fuselage turrets, two waist turrets and a tail turret each with two guns. It was discontinued not only because of the additional weight which would make it unable to keep up with it’s bombing compadres, but also because the centre of gravity had moved which made the XB-41 very unstable. Because of this and the experience with the YB-40s, the whole project got canned. 41-11822 got it’s guns and armour stripped and became a TB-24D trainer.

The official USAF Museum site with an image of the Liberator is at http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b3-90.htm

Arthur mentioned the existence of an escort B-24 similar in concept to the YB-40. You wouldn’t know anything about that, would you Flood? 🙂

As I said to JDK on Sunday, it is just who is able to answer first with what references they have to hand! I am sure that had this question been posted at this time of night (UK BST) then a few more Americans would have sewn it up for you…
All I have is that book on the Fortress – if it is wrong or incomplete then I will look a fool amongst my peers (again) and, hopefully, I too will be enlightened when some one posts that they do, in fact, have a YB40 stored in their tool shed against the time when they can retire…;)

Are you slagging Anna?:mad:

Flood.™

Of course I’m not slagging Anna, Flood; I’m sorry if it sounded like I was making trouble here. 🙂 I’m completely harmless, trust me.

I thank you for the fantastic information and pictures you provided Flood- they’re excellent. Please, provide more if you should have the info- it’s greatly appreciated.

Regards,

google

As I said to JDK on Sunday, it is just who is able to answer first with what references they have to hand! I am sure that had this question been posted at this time of night (UK BST) then a few more Americans would have sewn it up for you…
All I have is that book on the Fortress – if it is wrong or incomplete then I will look a fool amongst my peers (again) and, hopefully, I too will be enlightened when some one posts that they do, in fact, have a YB40 stored in their tool shed against the time when they can retire…;)

Are you slagging Anna?:mad:

Flood.™

Bloody hell 😮

What?

Bloody hell 😮

I didn’t know you knew so much about historic aviation Flood! I figured you just hung around on the GD Forum pining after Anna and making clever jokes. 🙂

Bit useless – they were low level attack and the YB40 was up with the other strategic bombers! I mean that the idea behind the YB40 was for it to be mistaken for another lesser-armed bomber and for its attacker to get a bit of a shock – not much scope for going chasing after the fighters with its fixed forward firing armament.

Flood.™

Where do you think the other guns would have gone? The waist gunners were already operating two guns per side, there was an extra turret over the radio compartment, the ‘fighter’ was already as heavy as a loaded B17 but at least they could drop some of their weight and gain speed on the way home; the XB/YB40 was just as heavy when it had to turn for home.

It’s possible that the extra guns could be installed in the nose in forward firing pods a la some of the B-25 Mitchell attack bombers.

Right, that’s the same website I came across as well. I was hoping that some worthy memebers on this board might somehow have such images even if the website author didn’t…..:)

I’ve only seen references and pictures of 14-gun YB-40’s. However, just found this using a popular search engine:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b17_12.html

There is a reference to 30-gun YB-40’s here, but no pictures. Look at the third paragraph. No conclusive evidence though.

Regards,

Paul

Rather think that the 6 gun chin turret looked a bit ungainly and unaerodynamic. The standard model was probably as good as they needed, being able to aim and such like, whereas that one probably didn’t have a lot of ammo.
Where do you think the other guns would have gone? The waist gunners were already operating two guns per side, there was an extra turret over the radio compartment, the ‘fighter’ was already as heavy as a loaded B17 but at least they could drop some of their weight and gain speed on the way home; the XB/YB40 was just as heavy when it had to turn for home. I cannot conceive such an aircraft with many more guns; surely it would have needed more crew to operate and service them in flight.
Note, again, that the pictures above were not of XB/YB40s – these were field conversions and the like. Below I have posted a picture of the XB40 prototype, 41-24341, complete with its extra Martin turret and the twin waist guns. Further is a picture of one of the YB40 batch with the decking forward of the Martin turret lowered and the waist positions staggered – this last went into service on the B17Gs, as too did the orginal chin turret. Note also that the underside ball turret could no longer be retracted into the fuselage.

Flood.™

Yb-40

All I’ve ever heard is the date about 14 guns and extra ammunition.
For what it’s worth, after the evaluation, the YB-40s were used as trainers stateside. My father’s flying records show he did some of his pilot training in YB-40s before being assigned to the 15th AF.

Thanks Flood! That’s a great picture- too bad they didn’t adopt all 6 guns in the chin turret for the B-17G. 🙂

Was there ever a YB-40 that carried ~30 guns?