Open Skies

Would bmi not be better off dropping the likes of VCE and NAP and maintaining a decent frequencey on domestic routes to allow feeder oppourtunities for the longer flights?

I thought BD’s main roll in *A was to provide feeder traffic for UA,SQ,TG,LH etc at LHR. If they cut them, then why stay in *A?

Maybe Im not typing exactly what I meen but it does seem strange to cut domestic routes in favour of L/ routes but continue to operate flights with crazy schedules to Continental European destinations.

Today’s Observer newspaper includes the following snippets:

1. bmi to swap slots used for domestic routes to launch new transatlantic services.
2. bmi’s first three LHR US services may be to Chicago, Charlotte and New York
3. bmi looking to buy a further 3 A330s.

They’ll be dropping the ‘M’ from the name next, followed by the ‘B’ no doubt ?:D:rolleyes:

Today’s Observer newspaper includes the following snippets:

1. bmi to swap slots used for domestic routes to launch new transatlantic services.
2. bmi’s first three LHR US services may be to Chicago, Charlotte and New York
3. bmi looknig to buy a further 3 A330s
4. BA shifiting Houston services to LHR
5. BA to then move Dallas services to LHR

Its true that some airports will unfortunatley loose out with open skies.

MAN at first glance would appear to be one that will suffer but an airport of that size will recover.
Imagine how poor SNN will feel.

DUB is the first airport to benift with EI already announcing IAD,MCO and SFO. 😀

Well I think that one airline in particular is likely to cut services to some regional points from LHR and use the slots for westbound services, and in addition, they are likely to, in the first instance at least, recall their widebody jets from another major regional airport to be used on the new services, meaning the loss of long haul points for said regional airport.

Surely you don’t refer to ‘London Airways’ ? :rolleyes:

Ah… It’s the A330 operator…:D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6470000/newsid_6478200/6478233.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm

And said regional airport should seek emergency talks with that airline with a view to finding out what they plan! Some routes may be able to be transferred to another British airline but one route may be difficult to replace?

Well I think that one airline in particular is likely to cut services to some regional points from LHR and use the slots for westbound services, and in addition, they are likely to, in the first instance at least, recall their widebody jets from another major regional airport to be used on the new services, meaning the loss of long haul points for said regional airport.

I know what open skies are I just want a list of countries who the EU have agreements with.

I know what open skies are I just want a list of countries who the EU have agreements with.

Howdy,

The objective of the EU is to end the balkinization of internation flights out of the EU. The goal would be particularly useful to strong carriers like BA, AF, and LH and bad for weak carriers like AZ and SAS.

EU carriers face a disadvantage when flying against foriegn carriers. Here is a good example. I live in Boston. I travel to the EU a great deal for vacations. If I decide to go to LHR and CDG I could fly non stop on AA to both cities each way. If I travel on BA or AF, I must make a connection on one of the legs. If the air fare is the same I will always fly on AA. If I live in NRT and travel to FRA and LHR, the same applies.

I do think there are additional objectives that the EU is trying to achieve. But the fact is, EU carriers are harmed with the current agreements between individual EU states and other countries. This would be a win-win for EU carriers. I certainly could see Virigin Atlantic taking advantage of any changes made between the EU and other countries, particularly with air travel to the US. Carriers like BA and LH must get out of the mentality that they are a German carrier going only to Germany and a British carrier going only to the UK. Carriers in the EU should only fly routes that provide a good economic return for their stock holders. The day of the flag-ship carrier is over, as it should be, at least in the EU.

Bkonner

Howdy,

The objective of the EU is to end the balkinization of internation flights out of the EU. The goal would be particularly useful to strong carriers like BA, AF, and LH and bad for weak carriers like AZ and SAS.

EU carriers face a disadvantage when flying against foriegn carriers. Here is a good example. I live in Boston. I travel to the EU a great deal for vacations. If I decide to go to LHR and CDG I could fly non stop on AA to both cities each way. If I travel on BA or AF, I must make a connection on one of the legs. If the air fare is the same I will always fly on AA. If I live in NRT and travel to FRA and LHR, the same applies.

I do think there are additional objectives that the EU is trying to achieve. But the fact is, EU carriers are harmed with the current agreements between individual EU states and other countries. This would be a win-win for EU carriers. I certainly could see Virigin Atlantic taking advantage of any changes made between the EU and other countries, particularly with air travel to the US. Carriers like BA and LH must get out of the mentality that they are a German carrier going only to Germany and a British carrier going only to the UK. Carriers in the EU should only fly routes that provide a good economic return for their stock holders. The day of the flag-ship carrier is over, as it should be, at least in the EU.

Bkonner

This thread seems really old but I want to find out more. I have recently found out that Irish airlines are only allowed operate to BOS,NYC,ORD and LAX from Ireland and of course the SNN stopover complicates things more.
Who will the EU/US open skies benefit and who will it hinder?
What countries does the EU have open skies with and does that meen any EU based airlines can operate unlimited services to these destinations?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This thread seems really old but I want to find out more. I have recently found out that Irish airlines are only allowed operate to BOS,NYC,ORD and LAX from Ireland and of course the SNN stopover complicates things more.
Who will the EU/US open skies benefit and who will it hinder?
What countries does the EU have open skies with and does that meen any EU based airlines can operate unlimited services to these destinations?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

RE: Open Skies

Within the EU full cabotage theoretically applies, ie any airline can operate in/to/from any country without restriction.

This is why the restrictions specified in the open skies agreements are illegal. I think “open” is a bit of a misnomer!

RE: Open Skies

I’ve just done a google search and discovered another 3 I didn’t know existed.

Sixth Freedom – Not formally part of the original convention, this refers to a state’s right to carry traffic between two other countries via an airport in its own territory.

Seventh Freedom – Also an unofficial extension, this covers the right to operate stand-alone services between two other countries.

Eighth Freedom – Another unofficial extension of the treaty, this is sometimes also refered to as “cabotage” rights. This refers to the carriage of passengers and cargo within the borders of another country.

RE: Open Skies

Mongu, I misread your posting and assumed they were planning to stop EU airlines from operating within other EU countries.

If anyone is wondering what the five freedoms are…

First Freedom – The right to fly across another country without landing (sometimes called transit freedom).

Second Freedom – The right to land in another country for purposes other than carrying passengers, such as re-fueling or maintenance (usually first and second freedoms are considered as temporary flight, not a schedule flight).

Third Freedom – The right to land in another country from their own country for purpose of commercial services.

Fourth Freedom – The right to fly from another country to their own country for purpose of commercial services.

Fifth Freedom – Sometimes refered to as “beyond right” . This freedom enables airlines to carry passengers to one country and then fly on to another country (rather than back to their own). This freedom divided into two categories:
Intermediate Fifth Freedom is the right to carry from the third country to second country.
Beyond Fifth Freedom is the right to carry from second country to the third country.

(The Third and Fourth Freedoms stand together as the basis for commercial services, providing the rights to load and unload passengers, mail and cargo in another country.)

RE: Open Skies

How so?

RE: Open Skies

Doesn’t this contravene fifth freedom rights under the Chicago Convention?