Cavour vs Izumo

Comparing the Cavour to INS Vikrant (IAC-I/Project-71) would be more useful…

Its no secret that there was a monetary deal with the Italians on the design but it another fact that no one in India associated with the programme or in the media want to acknowledge it now. Seems like all have forgotten about what the base of IAC actually is. I have no special love for the Italians considering that we got a ***** from Italy sitting on top and ruling the nation through her servants. But, I really hate when people fail to give credit where it is due. In this case not a single news article during the launch of IAC-I even mentioned the Italians.

Agree, it doesn’t seem right, & as you say, no secret. Fincantieri & Avio published press releases about the design contracts they had for IAC, & the tens of millions of euros they were paid for them.

as scoot de boot says, they are very close in size
but do they really differ in design and capabilities?
it seems the cavour is already capable of operating fixed wing combat jets

Comparing the Cavour to INS Vikrant (IAC-I/Project-71) would be more useful…

Its no secret that there was a monetary deal with the Italians on the design but it another fact that no one in India associated with the programme or in the media want to acknowledge it now. Seems like all have forgotten about what the base of IAC actually is. I have no special love for the Italians considering that we got a ***** from Italy sitting on top and ruling the nation through her servants. But, I really hate when people fail to give credit where it is due. In this case not a single news article during the launch of IAC-I even mentioned the Italians.

In the above ariel shot, I can clearly see the foreend extremes of the hanger and I wont be surprised if it is exactly the same as Cavour. If Italians plan any full deck carrier in future, it would be similar to IAC-I, maybe with some changes to the skijump.

All the talk of indigenous design etc etc need to be taken with care. There is indeed lack of design capability in India for ships for size above frigates, let alone the carrier. There are certain gangs in India who want all Indians to believe that India is some sort of super-duper design house…. well, in that case, the same guys would also be able to modifiy the IAC-I with three more deck level and they would get a Jaun Carlos class of ship.

But no they cannot, coz they dont have the capablity. If they really did, they would not have been sending RFI for LPD/LPH/LHD to foreign vendors. And just in case, the capablity exist and still the RFI was send out for the ships & ToT, then every single entity associated with overriding the Indian ‘indigenious’ capablity in ship designing with the sole aim of creating benefit to themselves & foreign vendors at the cost of Indian tax-payers money shoud be dealt with properly.

Just an observation really but didn’t Japan enter WWII with the largest most formidable and experienced carrier force in the world at that time. Or was Pearl Harbour just a myth 😉

What I mean is that the Countries that lost the war (and that were ruled by fascist dicators that used a lot miliutary rethoric) had to undergo a difficult psycological process. In a first phase there were objections toward everything related to the military.
Also other Countries kept an eye that the militaries of germany, Japan and Italy were strictly defensive.

OFC, things have changed in 70 years but putting fixed wings a/c on a ship is a thing exquisitely related to “power projection”, a concept which still frowns many eyebrows in Italy, and according to what some Japanese friends of mine say, also in Japan.

Why, seems hardly fair to compare destroyer with an aircraft carrier 🙂

Interesting topic on several levels. The Cavour while designed to operate the F-35B’s from the start is more geared towards a Multi-Mission Carrier. Which, is also designed to carried a large number of vehicles in addition to it’s Air Wing. I believe the Izumo is also designed to carry a number of vehicles but to a lesser extent than the Cavour. The Izumo is designed more toward the ASW Mission. Which, at least toward the start is centered around Helicopters.

All that said considering the close size between the two. I am sure they could operate an Air Wing of approximately the same size or at least very close to each other.

Just an observation really but didn’t Japan enter WWII with the largest most formidable and experienced carrier force in the world at that time. Or was Pearl Harbour just a myth 😉

Close tie between the US, UK, and Japan. Yet, I would have to give the Japanese the edge as it had the most capable Fighters and Torpedo Bombers at the start of the War. The US on the other hand had the Dauntless Dive Bomber. Which, was the best platform for Attacking Enemy Ships and Land Targets. The UK had very well Armored Carriers for its part. Yet, overall the Japan had the lead………IMO

as scoot de boot says, they are very close in size
but do they really differ in design and capabilities?
it seems the cavour is already capable of operating fixed wing combat jets

Why, seems hardly fair to compare destroyer with an aircraft carrier 🙂

You can delete for sure the “it seems”, from your last sentence.
I repost here part of an older message of mine in: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?108418-Global-list-of-all-flat-tops-in-service/page3

These shots were taken at a recent exercise of last January:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]220442[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]220443[/ATTACH]

Obviously this was well after the Cavour was cleared for fixed wing operations, and was not the latest or the last deployment of this ship, busy in a number of exercises since 2011.
The Cavour was designed keeping in mind requirements for the F-35B. Further works to accommodate the transition between AV8B and F-35B will be carried out by 2016.

I could not post any significant contribution about the Izumo, but that my view the Japan Navy will probably have to face still for long the same number of difficulties faced by the Navy of my country – we both lost WWII – before putting in service a naval fixed wing component.

For Italy the Garibaldi (a carrier involved with the embarked jets in Kosovo war, Operation Enduring Freedom and that gave a significant contribution also to the Libyan operations, although many still believe that the only carrier involved was the French CDG) was the way to carry out this process, after having been suffering opposition both external and internal (i.e., the antimilitarist italian political parties and the Italian Air Force which for a long time strongly opposed any try by the navy of re-establishing a naval fixed wing aviation: the AMI even succeeded to seize a batch of Curtiss SB2C Helldiver just delivered to the Italian Navy in September 1950).

I think that the Japan Navy will have to undergo a similiar process wich will take more then a few years.

Just an observation really but didn’t Japan enter WWII with the largest most formidable and experienced carrier force in the world at that time. Or was Pearl Harbour just a myth 😉

thanks for the thoughtful reply.
if it makes you feel better

back then I was rooting for Italy to win.

You can delete for sure the “it seems”, from your last sentence.
I repost here part of an older message of mine in: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?108418-Global-list-of-all-flat-tops-in-service/page3

These shots were taken at a recent exercise of last January:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]220442[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]220443[/ATTACH]

Obviously this was well after the Cavour was cleared for fixed wing operations, and was not the latest or the last deployment of this ship, busy in a number of exercises since 2011.
The Cavour was designed keeping in mind requirements for the F-35B. Further works to accommodate the transition between AV8B and F-35B will be carried out by 2016.

I could not post any significant contribution about the Izumo, but that my view the Japan Navy will probably have to face still for long the same number of difficulties faced by the Navy of my country – we both lost WWII – before putting in service a naval fixed wing component.

For Italy the Garibaldi (a carrier involved with the embarked jets in Kosovo war, Operation Enduring Freedom and that gave a significant contribution also to the Libyan operations, although many still believe that the only carrier involved was the French CDG) was the way to carry out this process, after having been suffering opposition both external and internal (i.e., the antimilitarist italian political parties and the Italian Air Force which for a long time strongly opposed any try by the navy of re-establishing a naval fixed wing aviation: the AMI even succeeded to seize a batch of Curtiss SB2C Helldiver just delivered to the Italian Navy in September 1950).

I think that the Japan Navy will have to undergo a similiar process wich will take more then a few years.