First export order for the LCA???

Brazil plans to select a new Navy fighter by 2013

Brazil defense Minister Nelson Jobim has confirmed that the winner of the FX-2 contest will also be selected for the Brazilian Navy which should order 24 new fighters in 2013.
This squadron will be the first step of the renewal of the Brazilian navy aviation and should be followes by the acquisition of a 60,000 t. aircraft carrier due to enter service between 2027 and 2031.

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/02/brazil-plans-to-select-new-navy-fighter.html

I believe the official plan is for a new carrier between 2027-2032. Personally I think they could stand to bring that forward a few years, but we’ll see.

Brazillian NAVAIR improvments

That’s just awesome !
I’d love to see those with an EriEye operating from small carriers,
that together with a handful of fighters will be a painfully hard nut to crack.

As I said earlier this is brilliant method of improving your abilities a little bit at time. does anyone want bet that the next step will newer fighters and then followed a few years later by perhaps a new carrier?

That’s just awesome !
I’d love to see those with an EriEye operating from small carriers,
that together with a handful of fighters will be a painfully hard nut to crack.

S 2 launch without a catapult?

Can S 2 Tracker take off a small carrier w/o catapult ?
(but with ski-jump)

They would not even need the ski-jump,This was done aboard the HMCS Bonaventure on occasion .

Not so sure about that, considering this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_aircraft_carrier_S%C3%A3o_Paulo_(A12)

What the Brazilians are doing is brilliant for very little money ,very carefully invested . They are producing a quantum leap in their capabilities .

Yes.

Can S 2 Tracker take off a small carrier w/o catapult ?
(but with ski-jump)

I don’t think brazil was ever serious about using the Sao Paulo in anger. It was more about developing naval aviation culture and compentences. The Sao Paulo will probably be retired and replaced once the FX arrives in navy service.

Nic

Not so sure about that, considering this:

The former French Foch was bought to replace the aged Minas Gerais at a bargain price of $12 million USD in 2000, no aircraft included. The government had already purchased a flotilla of used A-4 Skyhawk fighters from Kuwait for US$70 million. Brazil’s A-4s are capable of carrying armament including rockets, free-fall bombs and Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, though the São Paulo currently serves mainly to train pilots to fly carrier operations.

Upgrade (2005-2010) and Sea Trials

From 2005 to 2010, the São Paulo underwent an extensive modernization program. The upgrade included: inspection and repair of the steam turbines; maintenance of the surface condensers; retubing of boilers; repair of two high-pressure compressors; revision of the alternating current electrical generator and purchase of spare parts; maintenance of pumps, valves and structural items; purchase of two API oil-water separators; installation of two water cooling units; upgrade of the chemical oxygen generator; repair and treatment of oil tanks; substitution of the Naval Tactical Data System; installation of a closed-circuit television system; installation of IFF transponder; installation of MAGE system (ESM); flight deck inspection, repair and painting; upgrade of the Optical Landing System processing unit; revision of the aircraft catapults. The upgrade was complete in July 2009, and the São Paulo was initially due to be fully operational by August 2010.

Twelve Brazilian Navy A-4 Skyhawk will also be upgraded by Embraer at a cost of $140 million. The upgrade will be similar to the ones done for the AMX and F-5EM aircraft of the Brazilian Air Force. The program includes restoring the aircraft and their current systems, as well as implementing new avionics, radar, power production, and autonomous oxygen generating systems. Possible weapons to be included in the upgrade are Python 4 and Derby AAMS.

The Brazilian Navy has contracted Marsh Aviation to convert four S-2T Turbo Trackers to AEW configuration, and four more for tanking and COD duties.

According to an article in the October 2010 issue of Air Forces Monthly, it has been confirmed that Brazil has purchased EX-USN C-1 Trader airframes, Ex-Australian and Ex-Uruguayan airframes for conversion into AEW planes and Tanker aircraft. All the planes are to upgraded to S-2T Turbo Tracker configuration with Honeywell TPE 331-14GR engines. The purchase includes 9 airframes, 2 for tanker conversion to refuel the AF-1 Skyhawks, and 3 for AEW. The rest will be for spares or cargo duties. The AEW radar requirement is to have a range of 250 miles at 25,000 feet. Operational lifespan for the airframes is to be 10 years. They are to be ready by 2011 and 2012.

The São Paulo’s SH-3 helicopter fleet is to be replaced by six ex-USN S-70B Seahawk helicopters. They were purchased in 2008, and are currently being upgraded and refurbished for delivery. The helicopters and a package of engines and support equipment are expected to be delivered in 2009.

At the end of 2010, sea trials began, and as of 2011 the São Paulo has been evaluated by the CIASA (Inspection Commission and Training Advisory). It is expected to rejoin the fleet in late 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_aircraft_carrier_S%C3%A3o_Paulo_(A12)

Didn’t the Rafale have issues operating for the Foch? If, memory serves me seem like it was a weight issue and/or something to do with the catapults???

I don’t think brazil was ever serious about using the Sao Paulo in anger. It was more about developing naval aviation culture and compentences. The Sao Paulo will probably be retired and replaced once the FX arrives in navy service.

Nic

Thx for clearing that up 😉

I think the very big dock in Rio de Janeiro was where the biggest ship ever built in Brazil was put together, in the 1980s: a 300,000 ton tanker. The Brazilian shipbuilding industry collapsed after that, but a dock that big is useful, so survived, though I don’t think a big ship has been built there for many years. Just repairs.

AFAIK the Atlantico Sul dock is new, part of the recent revival of Brazilian shipbuilding, like the huge new Bahia dock.

Argentina doesn’t have the resources for either. Hell, at this stage she would be lucky. To purchase some secondhand 4th Generation Fighters. Just to replace it’t current fleet of Skyhawks! (and that doesn’t look good):(

Either? I was only referring to 3rd hand Gorshkov, eventually. There’s probably still some A7’s around which could be souped up.

Didn’t the Rafale have issues operating for the Foch? If, memory serves me seem like it was a weight issue and/or something to do with the catapults???

Rafale proto’s were tested from this class of ship.

But they’re building both large & complex civilian vessels. Tankers, bulk carriers, container ships & complex vessels for the oil industry, such as drillships. Also oil rigs. They have the skills & yards. With foreign partners who know how to build a carrier, they could do it.

Atlantico Sul is building 150K dwt tankers in its 400 x 73 x 12 metre dock. I think that’s big enough.

Estaleiro da Bahia has a new 360 x 130 x 12 metre dock building, planned to be complete this year. I think it may be floodable in two sections, i.e. effectively two 360 x 65 x 12 metre docks.

Sermetal (Rio de Janeiro) has a 350 x 65 x 10 m dock

Arsenal de Marinha do Rio de Janeiro (navy dockyard) has a 254.6 & 36 & 15.5 metre dock, Dique Almirante Régis. São Paulo fits in it (just). There are photos. http://www.mar.mil.br/amrj/ct_am246.htm Too small for a 60K ton carrier, but can handle LHDs, etc.

Thx for clearing that up 😉

Read back. Argentina has plenty of money, if the government chooses to spend it on the armed forces. Rafale was able to operate off Foch, but not at full weight.

N-LCA may or may not be developed into a catapult capable aircraft in the future, but so far it hasn’t been done. The STOBAR version is still under development.

Can they afford anything?

What if -Vikramaditya becomes available after India build its 3rd carrier at home (about when would that be?).

Argentina doesn’t have the resources for either. Hell, at this stage she would be lucky. To purchase some secondhand 4th Generation Fighters. Just to replace it’t current fleet of Skyhawks! (and that doesn’t look good):(

Uhm… France (Rafale)
Uhm .. BEA Systems (a cross between the T-45 Goshawk and the Hawk 100/200)
Uhm … Brazil (Aversion of their AMX-ATA)

But who says Brazil will stay with Sao Paolo / Foch? Should they buy a new, larger carrier, that can do so from France, but they could also do so from India or – considering PLAN maval personnel trains on board Sao Paolo – from China.

Didn’t the Rafale have issues operating for the Foch? If, memory serves me seem like it was a weight issue and/or something to do with the catapults???

AFAIK the N-LCA is only STOBAR. Not ideal for a ship with catapults & no ski-jump.

It was my understanding that the N-LCA was to be equipped at some point with a launch bar. So, it can operate from India’s latter IAC’s.

Can they afford anything?

8% economic growth last year, slower but still pretty good expected this year, money flooding in from selling soybeans, beef, etc to China at top dollar . . .

Can’t buy CVF, of course.

Na, they’ve only built small frigates and large corvettes thusfar.

But they’re building both large & complex civilian vessels. Tankers, bulk carriers, container ships & complex vessels for the oil industry, such as drillships. Also oil rigs. They have the skills & yards. With foreign partners who know how to build a carrier, they could do it.

Moreover, these are relatively small boats, which underscores my earlier points about corvettes and frigates: limited shipbuilding capability (is there even a dock big enough in Brazil to accommodate an assembling 60k ton carrier?)

Atlantico Sul is building 150K dwt tankers in its 400 x 73 x 12 metre dock. I think that’s big enough.

Estaleiro da Bahia has a new 360 x 130 x 12 metre dock building, planned to be complete this year. I think it may be floodable in two sections, i.e. effectively two 360 x 65 x 12 metre docks.

Sermetal (Rio de Janeiro) has a 350 x 65 x 10 m dock

Arsenal de Marinha do Rio de Janeiro (navy dockyard) has a 254.6 & 36 & 15.5 metre dock, Dique Almirante Régis. São Paulo fits in it (just). There are photos. http://www.mar.mil.br/amrj/ct_am246.htm Too small for a 60K ton carrier, but can handle LHDs, etc.