Type 212A with a deck gun?

I’m assuming the sub won’t be beached or take the risk to run aground, so it will have to keep some distance to land, 1500 meter is a paltry range.

We’ve only established it has been tested out to 1500m and proven effective. We’ve not established that is the max. range or even the max. effective range. Besides, SFO not only deal with land targets, so why are you assuming that for the gun?

I’m assuming the sub won’t be beached or take the risk to run aground, so it will have to keep some distance to land, 1500 meter is a paltry range.

I’m pretty sure that’s not max range.

In most literature i’ve seen it’s given as the max effective range of the RMK30.

Note that that is already more than cannons of comparable weight, barrel length and recoil, such as the Giat AM-30781 in the chin turret on the Tiger (which fires faster though…).

a ultra-short barreled 30 mm gun with no range whatsoever.

Wiesel application trial fired out to 1500m effectively, with a dispersion pattern of the rounds being 50% less that of a regular 30mm cannon at this distance. At 1.000 m precision is 1,5 mrad (= circle with radius of 1,5 m). 300 rpm. I’m pretty sure that’s not max range.

By the way, that Triple-M mast is patented
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7278347.html

Here‘s some more info on IDAS and Moraine

“Düsenkanone mit Impulskompensation ” 😀

Frogmen ops are clandestine by nature, something went wrong if they need suppressive fire support, especially from a ultra-short barreled 30 mm gun with no range whatsoever.

I dont know about that. If I’ve got divers in the water and there’s a harbour patrol craft pootling along with a couple of guys lobbing hand-grenades off the back (a fairly standard anti-inflitration measure if the threat level gets up) then the ability to briefly pop up a mast, put down a quick 20 rounds, then pull the mast….might just save me some very valuable SF troops!.

OK. If you knew that there were serious ASW forces about you would think long and hard about the ramifications of confirming your presence for the opposition, but, having the gun would give you some novel options!

Frogmen ops are clandestine by nature, something went wrong if they need suppressive fire support, especially from a ultra-short barreled 30 mm gun with no range whatsoever.

The short range AAM, or should i say SuAM, on the other hand is appealing to say the least, as it is a serious threat to hoovering choppers that could previously dip their sonar knowing full well they didn’t have to worry about giving away their position as the sub was harmless to them.
Any sub or ship engaging a sub is at great risk getting sunk themselves, now airborne hunters is at risk as well.
The SuAM is defensive in nature tho.

Btw, “Hydra” is apparently also an option for future Type 214 SSKs. So there’s a possibility that a (future?) 214 customer could buy Muraena.

Solid, concise information good stuff lads. Deepest appreciations!

Muraena is pretty much binned for the moment. IDAS will be capable of intercepting small boats and firing at shore targets in support of SF personnel, hence overlapping with Muraena’s intended role.

The Batch 2 Type 212A that are currently being built will have a heavily redesigned sail which will contain a mission-oriented payload area called “Hydra”. The Hydra payloads will be modular and exchangable.

Muraena and the Aladdin launcher were payloads proposed and developed for Hydra, other payloads that will definitely be realized are a 4-man diver chamber and the Callisto SATCOM system; a further possible payload is additional console space for mission-oriented analysis systems such as SUBLAB or network-centric communications systems.

So essentially a waterproof Remote weapon Station?

Wasn’t there talk of a folding UAV in a retractable mast?

From Wiki:

A 30 mm auto-cannon called Muräne (moray) to support diver operations or to give warning shots is being considered too. The cannon, probably a version of the RMK30 built by Rheinmetall, will be stored in a retractable mast and can be fired without the boat emerging. The mast will also be designed to contain three Aladin UAVs for reconnaissance missions. This mast is likely to be mounted on the 2nd batch of Type 212 submarines for the German Navy.

This still on the cards or has the idea been bined?

I like the idea of the gun and IDAS too, although more for engaging small boats than shooting down aircraft.

The IDAS is based on IRIS-T. They share the same seeker head.
The German Navy will have this system from 2014 on.

Thx

Is this said IRIS-T variant?

The IDAS is based on IRIS-T. They share the same seeker head.
The German Navy will have this system from 2014 on.

“New missile system for submarines”
http://www.tkms.ca/news/new-missile-system-for-submarines

IDAS

With the IDAS missile system, a submerged submarine can engage enemy anti-submarine warfare helicopters, small surface vessels and land targets near the coast with highest precision. The IDAS system comprises the missile, four of which are housed in a special launch canister in the torpedo tube, and the control console in the submarine’s command and control center. Main missile components are the imaging IR seeker taken over from IRIS-T, a fiber-optic data link between the control console and the missile as well as a single-stage, solid-propellant rocket motor providing IDAS with a mission range of approx. 20km.

The operator on board the submarine may intervene in the course of the mission at any time. In addition, reconnaissance results and target images obtained by means of the seeker can be evaluated in the submarine. With IDAS, a modern, conventional submarine is provided with completely new capabilities (escalation), also enabling its use in new scenarios of asymmetric warfare. IDAS is a technology demonstration program financed by BWB and the industrial working group ARGE IDAS (HDW and Diehl BGT Defence: 40% each, Kongsberg: 20%). IDAS is planned to enter the development phase soon.

http://www.diehl-bgt-defence.de/index.php?id=559&L=1

See also:
Aviation week

Modular Multipurpose Mast (Triple M) by Gabler Maschinenbau

Webpage: http://maschinenbau.gabler-luebeck.de/en/entwicklungen/eigenschutz/index.html
Brochure (pdf): http://maschinenbau.gabler-luebeck.de/files/triple_m.pdf

@Jonesy: Very similar in concept to the sail-mounted Blowpipe/Javelin mounting I’ld say, though it appears to me that that couldn’t be raised like this mast can i.e. the sub had to surface in order to use it.

Rather than supporting divers I would suggest that the real motivation would be the desire to engage helicopters (just like SLAM) for which the Germans are now acquiring a torpedo launched Iris-T variant.

I’d rather assumed it would be similar to the old SLAM/Blowpipe concept (pic) with a deployable mast carrying the weapon mount and a collimated optronics package of some sort.

The suggestion was that the cannon could be employed while the sub was submerged. Even so, as you say, the cannon rounds coming down would be a dead giveaway that there was a sub out there!.

I hope the gun is not outside the hull, i think the whole idea is kinky.
The whole sub concept is to be invisible, that is no longer the case when the sub surface and fire a gun.