Question reguarding HMNZS Endeavour

Fed: Interesting choice mate but seriously, the MB-339’s are still perfect for their needs. I do agree that they didn’t need the F-16’s, perhaps having the Macchi’s as their front line backed up by a small number of Super Tucano’s. Now couple these with ISAR capabilities of the R-99A’s and you start to have a force that can cover NZ’s area of operations with ease.

Looking into it your right about the MB-339, sadly the whole F-16 episode was the excuse that the in coming Labour(?) government needed to kill the whole capability against the advice of their own armed forces.

I think they could even kept the A4 if they had been clever about it, the Kuwaiti Skyhawk that went to Brazil eventually were fairly low mileage and in good nick.

Not wishing to dig up old stories but the loss of a fast air capability in New Zealand is an interesting subject. Whilst the F16 is a great aircraft and a good choice for any airforce it was just too big a pill to swallow politically in country like NZ. I think there were many other types that would of been easier to accept and given good capability, in the end does NZ need a supersonic air superiority fighter (even the multi roll F16). It needed an aircraft that can support the army and navy with a basic air to air capability. For me the ideal choice would of been the Aero L159A ALCA. It is cleared for pretty much every weapon carried by the A4K Skyhawk then in service meaning they could of avoided having to go for an expensive new weapons package, it has a useful air to air capability with its Grifo-F radar and Sidewinder. Finally the Czech airforce had and still do have plenty of spare airframes that they would have sold at a song. They could also of had a few converted to L159T1 two seaters to replace the aermacchi.

Fed: Interesting choice mate but seriously, the MB-339’s are still perfect for their needs. I do agree that they didn’t need the F-16’s, perhaps having the Macchi’s as their front line backed up by a small number of Super Tucano’s. Now couple these with ISAR capabilities of the R-99A’s and you start to have a force that can cover NZ’s area of operations with ease.

Not wishing to dig up old stories but the loss of a fast air capability in New Zealand is an interesting subject. Whilst the F16 is a great aircraft and a good choice for any airforce it was just too big a pill to swallow politically in country like NZ. I think there were many other types that would of been easier to accept and given good capability, in the end does NZ need a supersonic air superiority fighter (even the multi roll F16). It needed an aircraft that can support the army and navy with a basic air to air capability. For me the ideal choice would of been the Aero L159A ALCA. It is cleared for pretty much every weapon carried by the A4K Skyhawk then in service meaning they could of avoided having to go for an expensive new weapons package, it has a useful air to air capability with its Grifo-F radar and Sidewinder. Finally the Czech airforce had and still do have plenty of spare airframes that they would have sold at a song. They could also of had a few converted to L159T1 two seaters to replace the aermacchi.

Much worse than it is today. Dear Leader, er, the Messiah will either roll over when faced with a threat or over react…each are equally as bad.

Hmmm that explains the 100% add then- hehehehe, love it though. Got to buy that t-shirt!!!

So now that the Modern Dark Age is over (this period of time reflecting the fact that George W. Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard and Helen Clarke were all in power and the world seems to fall into a dictatorship), would any care to guess at what the world is going to be like in a years time?

Much worse than it is today. Dear Leader, er, the Messiah will either roll over when faced with a threat or over react…each are equally as bad.

Good point just read today that they have a new Gov, the Nationalist party I think.

Alas no move to introduce a fighter capability still.

OMG you’re right, the Wicked with of the East has fallen! Hope John Key and the National Party can fix things (and bring back the Air Force- I mean it’s costing them just as much keeping them in flyable storage as it would actually in service).

So now that the Modern Dark Age is over (this period of time reflecting the fact that George W. Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard and Helen Clarke were all in power and the world seems to fall into a dictatorship), would any care to guess at what the world is going to be like in a years time?

Er, who’se the N.Z. Prime Minister?

Good point just read today that they have a new Gov, the Nationalist party I think.

Alas no move to introduce a fighter capability still.

Er, who’se the N.Z. Prime Minister?

Fed: Sorry my Lord

Jezz: Thanks mate I love it- A few months ago I saw the t-shirts in an ABC shop while visiting my daughters up in Sydney, had a laugh about it but didn’t know what it was about- now I do :diablo::dev2::diablo::dev2::diablo: Totally for it!

Fed: Hahahahaha funny mate, but I’d rather shoot myself than live under a government dictated by Helen Clarke!!! I have no problem living in a country with a female leader, but look at what Clarke has done to life over there-Canned the F-16 deal Killed off the third and fourth Anzacs, bought inadequate weapons for the Army- NZ is a joke in military terms!

Pred: mate they are already looking for a replacement, just been reading about it- what with the mods that Endeavour is undergoing now, they are only temporary. They have started looking for a replacement more apt to the job required. My idea came on the back of the info that they are about to dock her and fill in her outer hulls with concrete to make her compliant with IML’s reguarding Double Hulled vessels for petrollium based vessels. Seems silly really but she is a good vessel and I thought while docked they could fix the flight deck- was just and idea that’s all!

That’s “Empress Helen” to you Ja! Mother Ruler of the soon to be great New Zealand Empire!:diablo:

Jezz: Thanks mate I love it- A few months ago I saw the t-shirts in an ABC shop while visiting my daughters up in Sydney, had a laugh about it but didn’t know what it was about- now I do :diablo::dev2::diablo::dev2::diablo: Totally for it!

Fed: Hahahahaha funny mate, but I’d rather shoot myself than live under a government dictated by Helen Clarke!!! I have no problem living in a country with a female leader, but look at what Clarke has done to life over there-Canned the F-16 deal Killed off the third and fourth Anzacs, bought inadequate weapons for the Army- NZ is a joke in military terms!

Pred: mate they are already looking for a replacement, just been reading about it- what with the mods that Endeavour is undergoing now, they are only temporary. They have started looking for a replacement more apt to the job required. My idea came on the back of the info that they are about to dock her and fill in her outer hulls with concrete to make her compliant with IML’s reguarding Double Hulled vessels for petrollium based vessels. Seems silly really but she is a good vessel and I thought while docked they could fix the flight deck- was just and idea that’s all!

It may seem like I am picking on the kiwi’s a bit lately but anyone who knows me, knows that this is far from the truth. I have nothing but respect for my cousins across the Tasman!

http://www.invadenewzealand.com/

Now’s the TIME :D:D:D:D:D:D

Well I wouldn’t pick on them too much Ja as your navy is on an extended holiday…after the invasion you will be a citizen of New Zealands new West Island:D

On holidays? 😉

The Armidales still sail, there is still a frigate in the Middle-East. As i understand it, they are basically cutting down on non-essential ops to let people take their accrued leave and so that maintenance on the ships (which have worked hard the last few months on exercises) can be carried out.

It may seem like I am picking on the kiwi’s a bit lately but anyone who knows me, knows that this is far from the truth. I have nothing but respect for my cousins across the Tasman!

Anyway on with my question: Given that She is currently under refit to make her compliant to International Maritime Laws (IML’s) regarding double hulls in oil tankers now, could they not also extend the flight deck to take the SH-2G’s?

The hanger is sufficient to allow it to be housed, just that the flight deck is too small.

I know that they are already looking for an replacement slotted in for the 2013 time frame, but still seems a waste not to use the full potential of the vessel, don’t you think?

Here are some pics for you.

This last pic is a great comparison between the Endeavour and the ANZAC class HMNZS Te Kaha, note the size of the FFH’s flight deck compared to that of the tankers.

HMNZS Endeavour’s flight deck was designed to facilitate the Wasp in service back then, but with the Wasp’s retirement some time ago, the RNZN has forgotten who to use the full potential of this very important and highly capable ship.

Well I wouldn’t pick on them too much Ja as your navy is on an extended holiday…after the invasion you will be a citizen of New Zealands new West Island:D

Two factors to this: size and weight.
The SH-2 requires a bigger flight deck, but you cannot simply extend it and add another supporting brace since the SH-2 is also more than twice as heavy at takeoff and landing and the whole deck would need to be either strenghtened considerably, or preferably be cut off and built new from scratch. Both efforts would require considerable time and money for assessment and then certification of structural issues, loads and stresses, airflow, seakeeping etc. And then a couple million $ later you might still find out that you cannot actually land a helicopter, or have to rebuild half the hangar as well because there’s a few centimetres missing somewhere. Difficult enough on a new ship with all the documentation and digital data like HMAS Sirius, much more so on 20 year old ship that is somewhat worn and has little life left anyway. Save the money and put it back on the table when the replacement debate kicks off.