Rebuild-a-Slava

Don’t worry, it’s powered by gasturbines anyway 😀

Is it? Cool much better than Sovs then.

How about 3 variants:
– AAW
– General Purpose/ASuW
– Land attack

I wouldn’t want the liability of the Steam powerplant but something like this would be a decent upgrade IMO.

I would like to retain long range AshM (P-700 or P-1000).

I wouldn’t want the liability of the Steam powerplant but something like this would be a decent upgrade IMO.

Don’t worry, it’s powered by gasturbines anyway 😀

I wouldn’t want the liability of the Steam powerplant but something like this would be a decent upgrade IMO.

might as well build a new ships

I wouldn’t want the liability of the Steam powerplant but something like this would be a decent upgrade IMO.

Why isn’t it practical? They’ve got all the assets the Soviets did, minus the ridiculous number of SSNs. The Oscar II is there, the Kirovs are there, the Slavas are there. With a bunch of Akulas and Kilos/Ladas, plus a ton of missile boats.

Throw in some Backfires into the mix and you’ve got an unbeatable punch.

I’m going to pretend like you didn’t mention any more “Russia can’t target ships” non sense again since it’s just getting old to convince you of the obvious. :rolleyes.

Russia might be able to get enough ships together to overwhelm one, maybe two carrier groups operating together, however there would not be 2 Carrier groups, there would be five or six, and Russia would not be able to destroy that group even with its whole navy. Plus once the Russian ships fire their missiles they have to somehow survive long enough to reach port and rearm before they can head back to sea again.

Its a matter of numbers, in a war situation the USN would have 10+ surface ships and 3-4 subs with each carrier groups, and there would be 5 or 6 carrier groups operating as mutually supporting groups. So your group of Kirov’s, Slava’s and Oscar’s are going to be shooting these massive big anti-shipping missiles at 50+ Tico’s and Burkes, not to mention any T45’s or other European AA ships in company. These are all ships that were specifically designed and fitted with weapons systems to defeat that exact same threat.

Now now, there there! This thread is for redesign-fun, not for really serious discussion. So, let’s not get carried away just because there are some different assessments and subsequently different redesigns. Do by all mean explain assumptions behind specific modifications.

You would accept that even a full load of 16 P-1000’s, by themselves, have scant chance at breaching the defences of the only target that it makes any sense for it to be used against?. Also that a Soviet-syle coordinated strike with a group of SSGN’s and a goodly few additional RK’s is not a practical option with the Russian Navy as it is.

Why isn’t it practical? They’ve got all the assets the Soviets did, minus the ridiculous number of SSNs. The Oscar II is there, the Kirovs are there, the Slavas are there. With a bunch of Akulas and Kilos/Ladas, plus a ton of missile boats.

Throw in some Backfires into the mix and you’ve got an unbeatable punch.

I’m going to pretend like you didn’t mention any more “Russia can’t target ships” non sense again since it’s just getting old to convince you of the obvious. :rolleyes.

A naval S-400 variant should be top of the line for air defense, probably better than anything the US fields at the moment assuming you can get in the mix of long range and medium range missiles.

A mix of Kashtan and Kinzhal would prove to be excellent for close range defenses.

16-24 Yakhont missiles is still a powerful antiship punch with minimal changes to the design and the benefit of freeing up of lots of useable deck space. Personally I might have been tempted down the Klub route in order to get the multirole capable VLS, but that could mean very significant changes in the hull down to 2deck. Still a 64 cell VLS capable of mission tailoring with competent AShM, LACM or ASW weapons, backed by the existing 64 tube area SAM fit would go a long way to maximising the usefulness of the hull.

Might work if the 8×8 VL area is tackled and S-400 in smaller 12 round VLUs put in.

I also agree with Gollevainen’s vision. As long-range killer, she should be armed with the P-1000. The replacement of the “Top Dome” by a “Tomb(Grave) Stone” (choose the most modern one) is a must. I also like to add the replacement of some SA-N-6 by 9M96M missiles on a 4 x 1 basis to lead to a sort of “naval S-400”.

An interesting option will be the replacement of 8 x P-500 by 8 x P-1000 and the remaining 8 x P-500 by 12 x P-800 Yakhont leading to a mixed configuration of 8 long range and 12 “short range” AShM. I don’t know if a mix with SA-N is possible but a high-lo 9M96M and 48N6DM ratio will also be nice in order to optimize reach/cost ratio.

Agree on the naval S-400. Though might this smaller missile not better fit in a VLU like that for VL-Shtil and then we’re talking replacement of the entire rear VLU farm!

This area might need modification anyway as I’m under the impression that those 8x 8-round launchers are in one large below deck ‘gallery’, with obvious damage- and fire-control risks. There would need to be some below decks compartimentalization there imho.

Concurred – very interesting. Initial thoughts would be for a bit more of a dramatic series of mods than Wan has put forward too.

Agree on removal of the P-500 tubes entirely. Yakhont seems the logical replacement and there is certainly space for inclined launchers in place of the forward couple of SSM launcher banks.

I’d want to shift the RBU’s to port and starboard of the bridge superstructure though – installed on raised deckhouses to handle the magazine space requirement. Every time I see those launchers in superfiring position over the bloody great SSM tubes it gives me a shudder just thinking of what a misfire might just touch off. Removing the 630 gatlings and FC set from the foredeck extension would also be an early change. Depressed firing arcs never seemed too clever from those positions.

Clearing the foredeck gives siting position, and reasonable arcs, for a forward TOMBSTONE director servicing the S-300 fit. I’d remove the reload crane and have port/starboard platforms built up for another TOMBSTONE on each beam just aft of the funnel group.

Aft TOP DOME would be removed and the aviation fit enhanced beam and hangar roofline mod should give addtional capacity. 2 Helix sized airframes should be absolute minimum on a hull this size.

Yes, additional hangar should be considered. Might even go take up some ideas from the old japanese DDHs there. Also like the idea of the removal of the crane (do they really need it? See example of the Mk41 3-cell strike-down crane: removed)

My choise would mostly follow in these lines:

Only change would be the Top Dome to be replaced with Tombstone.
For the main SSMs I would mostly go on with the P-1000 which was mented to replace the Bazalts in their associated launchers. Only reasonable option for P-1000 would be the Granit. Yakhont is completely different class missile than what is required here. The sheer size of this ship is useless unless it’s mented to carry heavy-range SSMs. The launchers for Granit are basicly just angled launcers beneath the decks so I quess it wouldn’t be hard to modify the missile to be launched from tubes of Bazalt/P-1000.

I’m curious about this drawing: what – if anything – is there forward of the RBUs? The AK-630s are obviously gone.

Another thought: if the RBU and AK630 forward were removed, could an additional 4 8-cell VLU’s be mounted there for RIF? (I’m obviously leaving more towards an AAW specialized vessel rather than a strike oriented vessel)

Replace the 12 P-500 missile launchers with 2 Iskander-M missiles. Not really practical but would look super cool. Talk about walking softly but carrying a big stick.

I’m curious as to what would you be trying to achieve with this configuration though?.

Just for mission flexibility. No way one Slava will attack an American group. It will do it with Oscars and Backfires. I will let the P-800 for the Burkes… May be you are right and I am mad; 24 P-800 looks quite potent too. Anyway, this is just for fun.

Rodolfo,

An interesting option will be the replacement of 8 x P-500 by 8 x P-1000 and the remaining 8 x P-500 by 12 x P-800 Yakhont leading to a mixed configuration of 8 long range and 12 “short range” AShM.

I’m curious as to what would you be trying to achieve with this configuration though?. P-1000 is an anticarrier weapon….no other target warrants the extreme standoff range. Leaving aside the organic targetting problem what chance do you give 8 weapons of breaching a carrier group’s AEGIS based AAW screen?. You alert the carrier group to your presence firing the P-1000’s then find yourself left with 12 SSM’s that lack the range to hit the target thats launching an airstrike to kill you?!.

You would accept that even a full load of 16 P-1000’s, by themselves, have scant chance at breaching the defences of the only target that it makes any sense for it to be used against?. Also that a Soviet-syle coordinated strike with a group of SSGN’s and a goodly few additional RK’s is not a practical option with the Russian Navy as it is.

Why bother then trying to prolong this long-range missile capacity?. Even the Russian Navy itself has accepted the inevitable, that it needs aircraft carriers, and is no longer trying to develop new heavy supersonic antiship missiles or the support infrastructure to employ them.

16-24 Yakhont missiles is still a powerful antiship punch with minimal changes to the design and the benefit of freeing up of lots of useable deck space. Personally I might have been tempted down the Klub route in order to get the multirole capable VLS, but that could mean very significant changes in the hull down to 2deck. Still a 64 cell VLS capable of mission tailoring with competent AShM, LACM or ASW weapons, backed by the existing 64 tube area SAM fit would go a long way to maximising the usefulness of the hull.

I also agree with Gollevainen’s vision. As long-range killer, she should be armed with the P-1000. The replacement of the “Top Dome” by a “Tomb(Grave) Stone” (choose the most modern one) is a must. I also like to add the replacement of some SA-N-6 by 9M96M missiles on a 4 x 1 basis to lead to a sort of “naval S-400”.

An interesting option will be the replacement of 8 x P-500 by 8 x P-1000 and the remaining 8 x P-500 by 12 x P-800 Yakhont leading to a mixed configuration of 8 long range and 12 “short range” AShM. I don’t know if a mix with SA-N is possible but a high-lo 9M96M and 48N6DM ratio will also be nice in order to optimize reach/cost ratio.

Right. Mostly, I’d also go along with the design in Gollevainen’s picture. I’d replace the stern Top Dome with a Tomb Stone and substitute Granit for P-1000, as suggested by him. However, I’d get rid of the Kashtan and RBUs on the bow and put a second Tomb Stone there – that would impede visibility from the bridge somewhat but the Tomb Stone can be folded flat when not in use and is slightly smaller than a Top Dome anyway. The RBU’s would go where the additional set of satcom domes are installed in that drawing, firing abeam to alleviate Jonesy’s misfire concerns. Last but not least, replace that huge parabolic gun-laying radar with that new phased array job found on the Talwar-class and the Pr.23080 corvettes.

An alternate configuration would be to put the gun-director PAR where the bow Kashtan is in the drawing, keep the satcom domes and RBUs as shown and put the forward Tombstone ontop of the bridge (where the gun-laying radar used to be, as seen on Pyotr Velikiy). Hello topweight though, lol.

I like the idea of using Granit because it would offer an opportunity to unify the weapons suite of both major Russian cruiser classes as much as possible. Many people think it requires wet launch tubes but that seems unlikely to me.

My choise would mostly follow in these lines:

Only change would be the Top Dome to be replaced with Tombstone.
For the main SSMs I would mostly go on with the P-1000 which was mented to replace the Bazalts in their associated launchers. Only reasonable option for P-1000 would be the Granit. Yakhont is completely different class missile than what is required here. The sheer size of this ship is useless unless it’s mented to carry heavy-range SSMs. The launchers for Granit are basicly just angled launcers beneath the decks so I quess it wouldn’t be hard to modify the missile to be launched from tubes of Bazalt/P-1000.