New take on an old boat

Pred: You raise and interesting prospect with Kanimbla, and Manoora I suppose, hmmm I shall think about this!

Re Iowa…
The rebuild I had in mind was fairly extensive, expensive and certainly time consuming. Automating the beast, like you said, won’t be an easy task, and the structural changes would be substantial also, and involve removal of all turrets and changes to large parts of the superstructure, including removal of the funnels and construction of the hangar in the aft section leading out to the flightdeck (large enough for CH-53/MV-22/CH-47, though somewhat doubtful about simultaneous operations from 2 landing spots I was hoping for).

Tomahawk and Harpoon launchers could stay I guess if they find space on remodeled superstructure, though additional Tomahawks in Mk 41 would be good and allow flexibility for variety of other missiles depending on mission and threat environment. Existing Mk 15 Phalanx (upgrade to latest Block variant) could stay, not completely discounting option of using 35mm or 57mm guns instead and addition of RAM close-in defence against fast surface targets and missiles.

Unfortunately there are not too many ex-German Marine units about…and most were upgraded and used until there was hardly a point retaining them any longer. Still, you may strike lucky… also, how about giving HMAS Kanimbla an imaginary once over depending on how JP2048 turns out?

Ahh yes, reviving the old skyhook would be a better idea.

My German fleet unit will follow soon!

Steve: Mate interesting refit you have there, especially the Walrus with the EJ200

😀 sorry couldn’t resist, perhaps a more realistic alternative would be a couple of Sea Harrier FA2’s on Skyhooks.

Well if that’s the case would you permit me the same curtosey since I am German?

Go for it!:)

Well if that’s the case would you permit me the same curtosey since I am German?

Can, I guess you are of Vietnam originally, right? Well I guess I can allow that, should have thought of that now shouldn’t I?

Yes, you should:D

Can, I guess you are of Vietnam originally, right? Well I guess I can allow that, should have thought of that now shouldn’t I?

I’m living in Australia but I think I might do both for VietNam and Australia.

Petya class(VietNam)
I would replace the 4 76.2-mm/59-cal AA gun with the AK-176- 1,
add the PALMA air-defence gun/missile system,
add a couple of AK-630-2 guns,
and add launchers for SS-N-25 missiles (8 missiles).
As for the engines, I don’t much about it so….

Battleship HMAS Australia (The 4th one)😀
Add launch capability for AGM-84 Harpoon missiles,
add Aster 15 SYLVER air-defense missiles, Aster 15/30 missiles and Phalanx CIWS,
add Sampson and S1850M radar,
add decoy system but not sure which one,
and if possible rebuilt part of the ship for helicopter capability.

Steve: Mate interesting refit you have there, especially the Walrus with the EJ200

Pred: Both interesting conversions mate but a couple of points re the Iowa class,

Jest: Sorry mate, those are the rules and I know it’s hard for Argentina atm to get anything but like I said you can use equipment from the other services, try fitting some missiles from the FAA or guns from the EA on your vessels.

RPS: So mate what exactly would you do?

Ahhh the nostalgia of the 1980s and the Virginia-class strike cruiser (CGSN):

If I remember correctly the intent was to convert the USS Long Beach as an interim type strike cruiser to test the concepts/equipment operationally while the actual Virginia CGSN class would have had 8-12 hulls purpose built as strike cruisers.

This is why I thought about using only what is already available to the country mainly because they would have spares around for the upgrade, well as a trial ship for starters then if it works they’d order more systems in and upgrade the rest..

That is a seriously limiting game rule, specially for navies who have ONLY older systems on inventory…what is it going to be, do I substitute my old SeaSlug for my old SeaCat, or viceversa…

As for the 25 de Mayo, no, they don’t have her anymore, though she is still there rusting away, she has finally been taken off the registry, especially after the last fire with caused much damage as to put her beyond ecconomical repair. This is why they are looking for a new carrier but the money is the big issue (they don’t have any).

Ja, mate. Those are old news, she was taken of duty in 89, taken of the register in 95 and towed to Aahlang in 1999, were she was made into razorblades long, long ago. There have been some pictures of her being cut at Aahlang on the web for quite a time, already.

Nuff nitpicking for now, lets do some ship upgrading.

ARA´s Type 42´s (Hercules and Santisima Trinidad):
Weapons: keep the 4,5″, scrap the Sea Dart and replace by 8 cell Aspide with 24 reloads mag (same as on Meko 360s), take it to Aspide 200 standard. Two cuadruple MM-40s (Block III, or whatever Block is said in french) replacing the older MM-38s. Lay out hanger as on Hercules (wider, deeper, taller) to fit two SeaSprites (OK, we don´t have SeaSprites, but the Pentagon would be willing to transfer a few). Close range AA? Don´t know what would fit and be accesible to us at the same time…
Engines: totally valid layout as it is, two plus two gas turbines. No need to fix what isn´t broken (OK; Santisima Trinidad would need new engines, as hers are out of order since the mid 90´s)
Systems: Throw away all the antique Plessey stuff, replace by a suitable radar for the Aspides (obviously, by scrapping Sea Dart the ships aren´t AAW anylonger, but still would have decent point AA capacity. New towed sonar, suited to operate with the Sea Sprites. SCLAR rockets, and ECM suit.

So modified, the commonality with Mekos would be greater, and the hulls still have some 15 years ahead of them. I would also think of a wider hanger and pad for Sea Sprites on the Meko 360´s (never really had a capable helo, after the brit embargo on 8 Sea Linx helos).

ROU Comandant Riviere Class (Artigas, Uruguay and forgot the thrid one)
Weapons: keep the bow 100mm, strike the aft turret. Strike the Limbo style mortar, and the AA guns. Ask the french to deliver at least a pair of MM-38 (whcih they took off before delivery). Install a Breda Bofors 2×40 AA on B position, 1 or 2 MM-38 on each side, a flat helo pad on the aft. Bo-105 or may be Panther, with some small torpedoes and SAR duties.
Engines: fine working Pielstick diesels, IRCC, No need to change them.
Systems: a working surface radar and a working AA radar (Breda Bofors works optronically, IRCC). Some ECM, chaff…

Would make fine riverine, estuarine, brown water vessels. Jsut taking out the second 100mm gun and the Limbo style mortar would take relieve the crew by 15 or 20 men. Thats good for the navy´s economy.

I also would like to mention the clever and extensive upgrade the chilean navy did to two of their County´s years ago. They even looked good after the upgrade. Good by Sea Slug, welcome two Cougar helos. New Baraks, new electronics, nice job.

King Jester

USS Long Beach (CGN 9) did cross my mind… with a few changes:
Seeing as currently only the hull remains a new superstructure with low RCS and two-island concept is in order. This might just as well incorporate space aft for double hangar and possibly interchangeable modules for ASW and MCM destined for the LCS to give some capability in these areas on top of several Mk 41s and a Mk 45 gun foreward for AAW and ASUW roles.

Propulsion would be taken care of by modified variants of S9G reactor from SSN 774. Not sufficiently familiar with the hull to know whether this would be entirely feasible, but ideal case would be the addition of a bulbous bow, two (electric) pod drives and two boost waterjets, call it COGLAG WARP(od).

Now that imagination is truly in full flow it is time to bring out the big guns… to support ESGs and the MPF(F) resurrect USS Wisconsin [U](or Iowa, both held in reserve still).

Replace steam propulsion system with array of MT30 (6+) or WR-21 (8+) gas turbines for all-electric propulsion and ship systems featuring four pod drives and a retractable azimuth thruster forward.

Armament:
Replace forward guns with 3-4 Advanced Gun System turrets and magazine of 2000+ rounds, add Mk 41 launchers for Tomahawk, Harpoon, SM-2 and ESSM

Install multiple CIWS/RAM, torpedo defence, soft kill decoys, IROS etc. on a remodelled superstructure. Any effort for reduced RCS may well be futile…

Put a hangar and flight deck aft for operation of aircraft up to MV-22 size.

With high level of automation reduced manning should be achievable and leave space for a sizeable joint force command and control department.

HMS Belfast refit 😀

Replace the 6in guns with current 155mm barrels and equipment.

Replace the 4in guns with current 4.5in/114mm gun turrets.

Replace engine machinery with the T45’s RR WR-21 gas turbine/electric propulsion units (x4?).

Sea Wolf VLS on the aft deck and Phalanx or Goalkeeper CIWS too.

A Supermarine Walrus amphibian fitted with a EJ200 engine 😀

Pics from http://www.hmsbelfasttours.org.uk/

Long Beach Class Missile Cruiser
*Displacement: 17,000 + tons
*Propulsion: Six LM2500 Gas Turbines
*Radar: SPY-1F
*Weapons: Three 64-cell Mk-41 launchers (128 SM-2, 128 ESSM, 16 Harpoon, 16 Tomahawk) & Two 21-cell RAM launchers.
*Aviation: Platform only

Then gift it to Taiwan. :diablo:

Hey Jest: Mate thanks, I was getting board at looking at the same old topics especially this v that which never really worksbecause you are either for one ship or the other and no matter how many good points are put forward you can never shake a persons conviction that they like the better ship, even when the ships do exactly the same thing but with different weapons (and that’s mainly what it’s all about, which one do you think would give the bigger bang).

As for your question, I was trying to keep it simple especially for someone in a country I am who won’t spend big to upgrade on the small, they’ll do it for the bigger ones just not the smaller ones, thus I wanted to see what people would come up with in a similar situation. This is why I thought about using only what is already available to the country mainly because they would have spares around for the upgrade, well as a trial ship for starters then if it works they’d order more systems in and upgrade the rest.

As for the 25 de Mayo, no, they don’t have her anymore, though she is still there rusting away, she has finally been taken off the registry, especially after the last fire with caused much damage as to put her beyond ecconomical repair. This is why they are looking for a new carrier but the money is the big issue (they don’t have any).

Pending the success of this I have another idea based on a similar theme, so look out for it.

Ok people in order to bring life back here, I am tasking you with upgrading an old vessel from your countries navy with modern day equipment.

This is to include Electronics, Weapons and even engines- everything!

There are rules and they are simple, you can only use weapons currently available to your country but the vessel has to be one that has already been paid off (eg, New Zealand can’t equip HMNZS Black Prince with Harpoons because the Harpoon isn’t in the current inventory, only Mavericks are. Similarly ASAR Radar can’t equip the Carrier 25th of May since the Argenitne Navy doesn’t have it,

Hi Ja, good idea for a topic, and I can think of many juicy retrofits for many old ships I´m sorry to see rusting away or being scrapped.
But about those rules (I know, its your game so you set the rules), the one about using ONLY systems available to a given country, that depends heavily on the amount of spending that country is willing to do, and in most cases it cannot simply be generalized that this or that country can or cannot get a particular system from any given supplier.

I´ll be back with some ideas later.

Cherrios, King Jester

PD: I guess you meant the ARA doesn´t have 25 de Mayo any longer, right?

well i would take the old Finnish navy Hämeenmaa (former Riga class SKR) out of tincans and other scrabmetals and…

Weapons

2x Bofors 57mmm/70 cal MK3 for place of the fore deck’s 100mm DPs
4x Sako 2/23mm aa guns, flnaking the super structure…

8x RBS-15mk3 to place of the old torbedo tubes and
Umokhonto SAM VSL pad in place of the old dual 37mm AAs…
and a helo pad to the rear part off course…no hangar, as it migth turn topweigth and wouldnt leave space for the Umokhotos

Porpulsion

hmm…sorry that I cannot recal the exact names of Wärtsila diesels, but some with capapility to move this size (~1200 tons??) of vessel…I come back to this when I have time to check it…

Sensors

same thing…but propaply a similar fit that is on our New HAmina class FACs as they share the weapon fit…but as i said i come to this later…

well that old piece of junk was offcourse soviet made and propaply wouldnt stay afloat for long period anylonger if someone would have miracluosly rescued her from scrabyard…