why not some used American Helo carriers

Thanks mate, I knew I saw it somewhere and that I wasn’t going crazy (well on this matter at least). Yeah those boilers were going to cost more than the ship was worth to replace, add to that the cost of fixing the damage the fire caused (and you know you can never get rid of the smell of a fire, no matter what you do), it was deemed not worthy to repair, so they sunk it.

I know at one of the Marine stations there is a memorial to those 12 men who lost their lives in that fire, not sure which base it is though!

Some of them were used as such on a temporary basis, but the one you are thinking of was the Inchon LPH 12 (Iwo Jima class), which was converted to a Mine Warfare Command and Support Ship (MCS 12) in 1996. She was decommissioned in 2002, and sunk as a target in 2004, leaving the USN with no dedicated Mine Warfare Command ship. Various of the LHAs and LPDs are supposed to fill that need in an emergency, but you know how well “temporary fixes” work in real life!

(edit): Since she was equipped with only 2 boilers, and 1 turbine & shaft, she didn’t steam too well after that fire I would guess. I had wondered why she was decommissioned so soon after conversion, but apparently the USN didn’t want to spend the kind of money it would take to repair that kind of damage on a 32 year old ship (completed in 1970).

Ok so which ship was used by the USN as a Mine Countermeasures Control Ship? I know it was of this class and I was sure that it was Iwo Jima and around 96! I remember seaing a pic of a CH-53 draggind the mine clearence vessel through the water with the ship in the back ground!

Yes, info is from:

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/us_assau.htm

Decommissioned and stricken for disposal 31 July 1993. Sold 25 July 1995 and scrapped at Brownsville, TX 1/1996 to 11/1996.

Badg: Mate are you sure about the Iwo? I know she was used as a mine countermeasures control ship for some time until being laid up due to a severe fire in one of the boiler rooms.

Of the 7 Iwo Jimas, the Iwo (LPH 2) was scrapped 1996, Okinawa (3) sunk as target 2002, Guadalcanal (7) is scheduled to be sunk (IIRC she was sunk late last year, but maybe not), Guam (9) sunk 2001, Tripoli (10) is “test ship” for US Army & still in San Francisco as of 2004, New Orleans (11) is on museum hold, Inchon (12) sunk 2004.
Therefore, only 2 (3) are left, and both of those are “spoken for”. Try something else for cheap helo carriers.

Yeah I forgot about that, I saw it pop up in Janes a while ago, a two year deployment to the US, man they’d be loving it.

I agree that the US will find out some hard truths about their lack of conventional sub and littoral warfare, personally I think that after this experiment, the USN will start calling for new conventional subs to play along side their fleet of big SSN’s

You can’t be more right!! The US Navy has seen this threat and they are “renting” a Swedish sub, complete with crew, to train US Forces on ASW tactics against conventional subs…..she will be based out of San Diego………should be a real treat for her crew…..and probably an eye opener for the US Navy!!

Scoot: Mate you have to remember that the future scenario of aquatic warfare lies not in the open ocean, but close in to shore where bigger vessels will have trouble getting in. Even the mighty LA class SSN’s have trouble in under less than 100ft of water, yet some subs such as the Type 209’s are made for these waters, therefore if you have a littoral carrier such as what is on offer here, you change the dynamic of the combat situation and thus force defeat on a potential adversary through grounds of Cost and Manning alone.

The US has been working on several small littoral concepts over the past few years. Most of which could take helos and/or VTOL aircraft. Personally, I would think the Sea Basing concept makes more sense?

Hope it happens……Australia has been without ANY sort of aircraft carrier for far too long.

Maybe that’s why i can’t get a responce from InCat, interesting

Dan: Mate I quoted what i had heard on the news back when it was announced some time last year, if you have the time and patients you can search through the history of the Modern AF board to find out the exact date.

The announcement was made by Sen Robert Hill at a conference regarding the F-35 and our participation in the program with the joint chiefs in the background.

Scoot: Below is the pic I promised, this is a 112m Incat proposal that was in an article by Dr Carlo Kopp about Amphibious mobility and the ADF. Incredibly enough i believe that Dr Kopp has finally said something worth taking note of! In the article he claims that the ADF don’t need two such large ships but one backed up by a small number (say three) of smaller vessels such as this one. His point is well made and i feel that it is worth the ADF taking note of especially if we want to increase our presence in our region especially in the light of our humanitarian deployments and peace keeping duties.

This vessel is called the LHT (Landing Helo Transporter), it is112m in length, has a small flat deck with three flight spots, a parking area and a rear lift. It can operate six Blackhawk sized helos which can be housed in the hanger one deck down. There is also a rear ramp for amphib craft or RO/RO ops, the vechiule deck can handle almost everything bar trucks and buses and can even take our new Abrams tanks though due to weight constrictions only two plus support vechiules would be able to be carried!

Quite an interesting vessel, I had emailed InCat for details and pics but I have yet to receive any responce.

Interesting……………I believe the US was working on something similar? Maybe a joint program? This would be perfect in the littorals……..excellant concept! 😎

Dan: Mate I quoted what i had heard on the news back when it was announced some time last year, if you have the time and patients you can search through the history of the Modern AF board to find out the exact date.

The announcement was made by Sen Robert Hill at a conference regarding the F-35 and our participation in the program with the joint chiefs in the background.

Scoot: Below is the pic I promised, this is a 112m Incat proposal that was in an article by Dr Carlo Kopp about Amphibious mobility and the ADF. Incredibly enough i believe that Dr Kopp has finally said something worth taking note of! In the article he claims that the ADF don’t need two such large ships but one backed up by a small number (say three) of smaller vessels such as this one. His point is well made and i feel that it is worth the ADF taking note of especially if we want to increase our presence in our region especially in the light of our humanitarian deployments and peace keeping duties.

This vessel is called the LHT (Landing Helo Transporter), it is112m in length, has a small flat deck with three flight spots, a parking area and a rear lift. It can operate six Blackhawk sized helos which can be housed in the hanger one deck down. There is also a rear ramp for amphib craft or RO/RO ops, the vechiule deck can handle almost everything bar trucks and buses and can even take our new Abrams tanks though due to weight constrictions only two plus support vechiules would be able to be carried!

Quite an interesting vessel, I had emailed InCat for details and pics but I have yet to receive any responce.

Scoot: you’d be suprised how many times i’ve been asked that in the last week, I did post about the ADF’s intentions some time ago, but just for you I’ll re state what i said before!

The Australian Defence Force is lookingb at replacing it’s Hornet and F-111 fleet with the new F-35 in a 70/30 mix of two new types that are not on the drawing board yet (well that was at the time of the report). 70 F-35’s which would be a hybred of the F-35A and C models and a new version of the F-35B model of which 30 will be bought for ops off the two new LHD’s that the RAN are planning to buy.

Now considering that we are looking at introducing these planes in 2015 this does tie in with further development of the F-35 fleet. And considering Australia never buys anything off the shelf but tailor makes it’s planes to it’s needs, this could be interesting (refer to the F-111 program).

There still are many people here that are opposed to this planned purchase especially since most see it as a deal that has been forced on to us by the US.

Um where is this coming from Ja? Last I heard was that the Government will be replacing the current fleet (72 F/A-18 & 35 F-111C/G) with upto 100 new aircraft. These aircraft have not been officially chosen yet but the Government has signed us up to the SDD pahse of the JSF and baring the failure of the program it is almost a given that the F-35 will be the next fighter of the RAAF. IIRC the minister did mention at the last press release for the LHD program that a number of the F-35B varinat might be purchased for operation of the vessels. However I’ve not heard anything that sounds as definite as what you seem to be quoting. Re a tailor made variant of the F-35 I don’t think that is particularly likely. The F/A-18 Hornet fleet were pretty much stock standard

The Australian Hornet deletes the catapult launch equipment, has a conventional ILS/VOR, has landing lights, is equipped with a fatigue recorder, and has an added high-frequency radio for long-range communications, but is otherwise identical to the Navy/Marine Corps version. Australian Hornets are fully compatible with the AGM-65 Maverick air-to- surface missile and the AGM-84 Harpoon anti-shipping missile. In addition, it is equipped so that it can carry a reconnaissance pod in place of the internal cannon.

It has already been mooted that future weapons procurements will be made with an eye on compatibility with the F-35 to avoid having the inventory become redundant after the the new type enters service or having to pay for the integration of a non-standard weapon.

Daniel

Scoot: you’d be suprised how many times i’ve been asked that in the last week, I did post about the ADF’s intentions some time ago, but just for you I’ll re state what i said before!

The Australian Defence Force is lookingb at replacing it’s Hornet and F-111 fleet with the new F-35 in a 70/30 mix of two new types that are not on the drawing board yet (well that was at the time of the report). 70 F-35’s which would be a hybred of the F-35A and C models and a new version of the F-35B model of which 30 will be bought for ops off the two new LHD’s that the RAN are planning to buy.

Now considering that we are looking at introducing these planes in 2015 this does tie in with further development of the F-35 fleet. And considering Australia never buys anything off the shelf but tailor makes it’s planes to it’s needs, this could be interesting (refer to the F-111 program).

There still are many people here that are opposed to this planned purchase especially since most see it as a deal that has been forced on to us by the US.

Indeed, but since I just got my PC back today i’ll have a chance later to do some scanning and I’ll show you guys something that makes more sence 😉

I can hardly wait! Ja- Does the RAAF plan on VTOL or CTOL JSF? I thought I heard they were only getting F-35A’s (i.e. CTOL) JSF’s……….

Indeed, but since I just got my PC back today i’ll have a chance later to do some scanning and I’ll show you guys something that makes more sence 😉

Maybe RAN could do something on a slightly smaller scale? The concept is sound………… 😎

I saw this article down here ion a local defence magazine. The concept is interesting but only the USN could use such ships, they did try and offer them to the RAN but we couldn’t use them due to their size, we don’t have 30 CH-47’s for one ship, we only have six all up!