Next generation ARM ?

not quite yet……but it wont be long, at least thats what i read and considerations were being made for a QF-16 because of the ammount of types available for destruction……

I thought all the QF-4G airframes had been expended several months, if not years ago?

From Jane’s Defence News Briefs:

USAF reveals airborne live-firing trials of ramjet missile
Airborne live-firing trials have been revealed of a hitherto unseen United States ramjet-powered air-to-surface weapon. Under the Higher-Speed Anti-radiation missile Demonstration (HSAD) programme, ATK and the US Navy (USN) have combined a ramjet motor with the dual-mode seeker developed for the AGM-88E advanced anti-radiation guided missile (AARGM). The HSAD is a parallel effort to the other various SEAD (suppression of enemy air defences) systems evolving in the US today.

Not to mention F-4s have been used to fire just about everything at one time or another.

It even fired AGM-78 Standard ARM. Too bad they didn’t go on with that. With present MK 104 engine, it would probably kill a SAM site at 200 km.

I’m a bit curious of the publication of the picture. Strange that it’s not flagged as a great new developement by some, private or military.

Looking at QF-4 statistics from AFM for some years, one would think that testing would be done on a F-18 instead of a QF-4G, based on risk asessments.

Could the primary reason be that this could be a low-risk experimental weapon system for dealing with threats like S-400 or similar ?

If you check out the AvWeek link it mentions that there was less red tape getting it into the air on an unmanned aircraft than there would have been with a manned one. Killing two birds with one stone. Not to mention F-4s have been used to fire just about everything at one time or another.

I’m a bit curious of the publication of the picture. Strange that it’s not flagged as a great new developement by some, private or military.

Looking at QF-4 statistics from AFM for some years, one would think that testing would be done on a F-18 instead of a QF-4G, based on risk asessments.

Could the primary reason be that this could be a low-risk experimental weapon system for dealing with threats like S-400 or similar ?

Found this: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a710a5216-59db-44d3-86ef-9aa5cfecfd90It seems that the desired range is 100 Nmiles.

Bill Sweetman’s tentative identification of this as a test vehicle for the Office of Naval Research High Speed Anti-Radiation Demonstration (HSAD) programme seems realistic, though I don’t think he is right when the says that “HSAD combines the seeker head and guidance electronics of the AGM-88 HARM with a wingless airframe and a ramjet propulsion system”.

Science and Applied Technologies (now part of ATK) was given a contract in 2002 to supply a forebody section to be mated with a new integral nozzleless rocket, variable flow ducted rocket ramjet propulsion and steering control subsystem in support of the HSAD project. This was based on AARGM rather than the standard HARM. The tail end of the round was by Atlantic Research.

Hmmm, the GQM has a 13.5 inches diammeter, while the HARM is 10; from the picture posted it seems that the diammeter is contant. So, it must be a 10 inches ramjet…

I’m aware of that. I looked at the shape of the ramjet duct (intake rotated by 90°), since I think it low probability that they’ll do something completely new.
The 10in option, ARMIGER ramjet, has a different shape, and I’m not sure they ever built enough to use them for tests.

Found this: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a710a5216-59db-44d3-86ef-9aa5cfecfd90It seems that the desired range is 100 Nmiles.

I’d say it’s half a motor section of a GQM-163 combined with a HARM front.

Hmmm, the GQM has a 13.5 inches diammeter, while the HARM is 10; from the picture posted it seems that the diammeter is contant. So, it must be a 10 inches ramjet…

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3411.msg27186/topicseen.html#msg27186

I posted some pics there. (Have to register to see ’em though.)

I’d say it’s half a motor section of a GQM-163 combined with a HARM front.

I still think it’s related to AARGM, check this out:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/aw122407p1.xml

Info on Navy ramjet research here:

http://www.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/td1802/waltrup.pdf

They mention that a ramjet HARM was at one point tested, the object in the picture might be a leftover airframe for trialling the drone/weapon test concept.

The missile also resembles Raytheon’s FMRAAM concept, but it was described in the USAF thing as an air-to-surface weapon, so that can’t be it either.

Looks an awful lot like the object in this picture, which may be related to ARC’s (now Aerojet) VFDR program or may be an example of SENIOR BLUE/HAVE DASH:

Interesting that it follows that configuration rather than the one with the lateral intakes and different tail control surfaces shown in the past.

Based on the picture and this, http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/FO/scripts/newsFO_complet.php?lang=EN&news_id=224 , could it be that they took technology from the MBDA Meteor program and applied it to the AGM-88E ?

No.

I still think it’s related to AARGM, check this out:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/aw122407p1.xml

Info on Navy ramjet research here:

http://www.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/td1802/waltrup.pdf

They mention that a ramjet HARM was at one point tested, the object in the picture might be a leftover airframe for trialling the drone/weapon test concept.

The missile also resembles Raytheon’s FMRAAM concept, but it was described in the USAF thing as an air-to-surface weapon, so that can’t be it either.

Looks an awful lot like the object in this picture, which may be related to ARC’s (now Aerojet) VFDR program or may be an example of SENIOR BLUE/HAVE DASH:

A QF-4G Wild Weasel on a one way mission……..
A long range missile that doesn’t fit into a stealthy weapons bay……

A lot of interresting questions arise when we couple it to modern russian SAM systems.

SOC, you have the advantage over me of not having consumed a glass of 10 year old tawny port, then half a bottle of wine (dinner party prior to my wife’s departure to the USA to visit relatives…)

I think it was Roy Braybrook who claimed that the practice of defence journalism involved Blood, Sweat, Moet, et Chandon. It’s good to see these old traditions being maintained. Tell your wife I wish her a safe journey.

Based on the picture and this, http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/FO/scripts/newsFO_complet.php?lang=EN&news_id=224 , could it be that they took technology from the MBDA Meteor program and applied it to the AGM-88E ?

That Meteor-style layout has also been used in US concepts/projects.

But for the moment, I need to head back to the dinner party…

Based on the picture and this, http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/FO/scripts/newsFO_complet.php?lang=EN&news_id=224 , could it be that they took technology from the MBDA Meteor program and applied it to the AGM-88E ?

Why would they show it on the QF-4, and not on a F-18 ?

Click here:

http://www.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123082272

Then select an image from the left, and underneath the preview on the right hit “Download Full Image”.

As an aside this is probably related to the AARGM program.

SOC, you have the advantage over me of not having consumed a glass of 10 year old tawny port, then half a bottle of wine (dinner party prior to my wife’s departure to the USA to visit relatives…)

I’ll try to get onto this in the morning – that missile configuration looks terribly familiar. It’s not the current AARGM, which re-uses the HARM motor.