Russian ''father of all bombs''

You seem very quick to disregard as “rubbish” anything that doesn’t go along with your very special idea of what Russian govt should do in Chechnya.

There was no public outcry at this weapon being tested was there?

Why?

Obviously because it was a test.

The only possible reason for there to be an outcry at using this weapon anywhere in particular to clear a Helo LZ is if innocent people were killed when it was dropped. Unless it is dropped on a wedding party I doubt the world cares how the Russians create their landing zones for their helos.

You may doubt what Russian public would and would not get upset about. But I know for a fact what my family members and my friends and colleagues will think if FOAB will be dropped in Chechnya.

And if they announce that this bomb has been used to kill over 200 hardline chechen fighters including several who escaped the hospital siege who were hiding up in the mountains in an inaccessable region I am sure your whole family would go into mourning. Would that be for the trees burnt or the rocks shifted around?

What are you basing your doubts on anyway?

I am basing my doubts on the fact that this is a conventional weapon and as such it is just a very large bomb… just like the FAB-9000s they dropped in afghanistan in the 1980s from Tu-16 bombers. I don’t remember any outcry then either.

Born, lived, worked in Russia, have you? Comparing US public opinion to Russian public opinion is a glaring mistake.

The American public only knows what its media tells it. It is owned by rich powerful people who got where they are now in the current system of government. Of course they fear all other types of government.

Besides the differences in culture, history and mentality, Chechnya happens to be a part of Russia… not some kingdom of Far Far Away half the citizens cant find on a map w/o a refresher in geography and a Bud Light.

Is a Bud light a type of torch?
Ha… no don’t tell me… just asked a friend who had been to the US… it is a type of low alcohol beer.

Goes to show how little you know about the country and the people you like so much. Every reasonable person in Russia wants to avoid the escalation of hostilities in the region. Dropping world largest conventional bomb anywhere and for whatever reason is not the way.

It is not an escalation. It is a conventional weapon and conventional weapons have already been used by both sides.

Bottom line: Thankfully Russian government knows exactly what to do with Chechnya, dckheads, FOABs and public opinion. Regardless of the chubbies and semis anyone might be getting imagining FOAB going off in anger – it simply wont happen.

Yeah, that is funny… they have developed a weapon they can never use… doesn’t that make them dkheads? Wasting money like that…

If you think that it really really should be dropped, Garry

Yeah… that is me… they have a really big conventional bomb… now they have to bomb everyone like the US does…

Get over yourself. It is a tool that can be used for certain specific jobs. They wont drop this in Grozny. It is more likely to be dropped on some mountain base, or as mentioned to clear a forested area really really quickly.

Rubbish. First of all if used to clear an area for a landing zone for Helos it is use of a bomb for construction rather than destruction purposes. There were no cries from the media after Desert Storm when specialists were using explosives to cap oil well fires. As long as it is not used to level a city block in Grozny I doubt it would even be mentioned. If it is used to wipe out the last camp of chechen rebels in the mountains again I doubt anyone would care. Those dkheads haven’t just evapourated… just the same as OBL is still out there.

I doubt the Russian public would be upset by excessive force being used in Chechnia… any more than the US public are upset by excessive force being used in Iraq or Afghanistan… or anywhere where it doesn’t directly effect US citizens.

This is just another tool for the tool box. They haven’t used Granits either but they seem to think having them available is useful for the moment too.

You seem very quick to disregard as “rubbish” anything that doesn’t go along with your very special idea of what Russian govt should do in Chechnya. You may doubt what Russian public would and would not get upset about. But I know for a fact what my family members and my friends and colleagues will think if FOAB will be dropped in Chechnya. What are you basing your doubts on anyway? Born, lived, worked in Russia, have you? Comparing US public opinion to Russian public opinion is a glaring mistake. Besides the differences in culture, history and mentality, Chechnya happens to be a part of Russia… not some kingdom of Far Far Away half the citizens cant find on a map w/o a refresher in geography and a Bud Light. Goes to show how little you know about the country and the people you like so much. Every reasonable person in Russia wants to avoid the escalation of hostilities in the region. Dropping world largest conventional bomb anywhere and for whatever reason is not the way.

Bottom line: Thankfully Russian government knows exactly what to do with Chechnya, dckheads, FOABs and public opinion. Regardless of the chubbies and semis anyone might be getting imagining FOAB going off in anger – it simply wont happen.

If you think that it really really should be dropped, Garry – I suggest you write here… ’cause I dont think he’s reading this.

Right now using ANY kind of bomb in Chechnya would effectively start Third Chechen War in people’s minds.

Rubbish. First of all if used to clear an area for a landing zone for Helos it is use of a bomb for construction rather than destruction purposes. There were no cries from the media after Desert Storm when specialists were using explosives to cap oil well fires. As long as it is not used to level a city block in Grozny I doubt it would even be mentioned. If it is used to wipe out the last camp of chechen rebels in the mountains again I doubt anyone would care. Those dkheads haven’t just evapourated… just the same as OBL is still out there.

There are elections coming up – no one in their right mind would bomb a relatively peaceful republic for whatever reason.

I doubt the Russian public would be upset by excessive force being used in Chechnia… any more than the US public are upset by excessive force being used in Iraq or Afghanistan… or anywhere where it doesn’t directly effect US citizens.

Is this really that hard to get?

This is just another tool for the tool box. They haven’t used Granits either but they seem to think having them available is useful for the moment too.

And so what if the world does notice Chechnia getting bombed again. For all the wailing about FAEs being used… and FAEs being of course almost as bad as WMD how many TOS units were withdrawn under international pressure?

As far as I can tell TOS units were increased in number and where it seemed useful there was no hesitency to use it. The Russians learned that using firepower to overcome an obstacle reduces your own loses and they weren’t going to forget that in a hurry.

Considering its weight and size it is unlikely to be used for every job that comes up, it is a specialist weapon and may never actually be used.

For all the whining about what went on in Vietnam I don’t recall any complaints about using daisy cutters to clear helicopter LZs.

I’m sorry. What part of the war is over I did not communicate clearly?
If FOAB was avaialble for deployment in 1999-2003 I’m sure it would have been used together with TOS, FAE bombs and god knows what else. Right now using ANY kind of bomb in Chechnya would effectively start Third Chechen War in people’s minds. Upon closer examination – you’ll notice that I said that Russian audience is more importaint in this context than any international opinion. There are elections coming up – no one in their right mind would bomb a relatively peaceful republic for whatever reason.
Is this really that hard to get?

Its 2007 not 1989 – the whole world will know that Russia just bombed Chechnya before the bomb actually explodes. We can dream all we want, but in reality it will never happen.
8th October 2007 00:32

And so what if the world does notice Chechnia getting bombed again. For all the wailing about FAEs being used… and FAEs being of course almost as bad as WMD how many TOS units were withdrawn under international pressure?

As far as I can tell TOS units were increased in number and where it seemed useful there was no hesitency to use it. The Russians learned that using firepower to overcome an obstacle reduces your own loses and they weren’t going to forget that in a hurry.

Considering its weight and size it is unlikely to be used for every job that comes up, it is a specialist weapon and may never actually be used.

For all the whining about what went on in Vietnam I don’t recall any complaints about using daisy cutters to clear helicopter LZs.

yeah because there are so many international monitors and reporters working in Chechnya….

They can use this there and no one would dare utter a sound in protest least of all Kadyrov whose own men die in droves in these operations because they receive no serious heavy fire power in support. Those 22 dead werent mainly Russian they were mostly Chechens, only the pilots were Russian. Nobody will mind one of these going off in the woods far from even the remotest Aul because chances are no one but a few soon to be dead rebels will even know about it.

Wake me up when that actually happens…

Its 2007 not 1989 – the whole world will know that Russia just bombed Chechnya before the bomb actually explodes. We can dream all we want, but in reality it will never happen.

yeah because there are so many international monitors and reporters working in Chechnya….

They can use this there and no one would dare utter a sound in protest least of all Kadyrov whose own men die in droves in these operations because they receive no serious heavy fire power in support. Those 22 dead werent mainly Russian they were mostly Chechens, only the pilots were Russian. Nobody will mind one of these going off in the woods far from even the remotest Aul because chances are no one but a few soon to be dead rebels will even know about it.

there have been several articles recently in the Russian military press about the dense foliage in Chechnya being so dense that there are few if any helicopter drop zones for troops in some areas and how border guard garrisons (92 posts exist on the Chechen-Georgian border alone) are effectively isolated since road traffic to them is impossible because of foliage and the poor state of roads many of which havent been repaired in 40!!! years and effectively only exist on maps.

The helicopter (Mi-8) that was lost back in Chechnya back in February or March in which 22 GRU soldiers were killed crashed because there was no good drop zone and they had to drop the soldier on a steep slope, the rear rotor hit the ground and the whole chopper ended up sliding down a mountain, the fuel tanks were punctured and friction ignited the fuel which killed everyone on the helicopter.

A bomb like this would kill any prepared ambush and create quite a nice drop zone. I guarantee you that this is what it is primarily designed for so accuracy is not necessary. Such a weapon could make helicopter operations much safer.

Using such weapon in Chechnya right now is politically impossible. For all intends and purposes the war there is over. Vast majority of heavy weaponry including bombers were withdrawn years ago. Using FOAB in Checnya for ANY reason will be seen by both international and more importaintly Russian audience as effective begining of Third Chechen War – and no one wants that. So if military or internal troops need a landing pad, they need to build it by more conventional methods, and not by dropping bobms.

The references to the higher temperature blast over the MOAB reminded me of talk in the west in the mid 90s when the US was considering using small nukes to destroy and seal in underground WMD making plants, where the high heat destroys most of the agents (chemical or biological) while the power of the explosion entombs the underground mess.
Maybe a stretch but this might be for WMD labs too? Above ground ones only though being a FAE.

there have been several articles recently in the Russian military press about the dense foliage in Chechnya being so dense that there are few if any helicopter drop zones for troops in some areas and how border guard garrisons (92 posts exist on the Chechen-Georgian border alone) are effectively isolated since road traffic to them is impossible because of foliage and the poor state of roads many of which havent been repaired in 40!!! years and effectively only exist on maps.

The helicopter (Mi-8) that was lost back in Chechnya back in February or March in which 22 GRU soldiers were killed crashed because there was no good drop zone and they had to drop the soldier on a steep slope, the rear rotor hit the ground and the whole chopper ended up sliding down a mountain, the fuel tanks were punctured and friction ignited the fuel which killed everyone on the helicopter.

A bomb like this would kill any prepared ambush and create quite a nice drop zone. I guarantee you that this is what it is primarily designed for so accuracy is not necessary. Such a weapon could make helicopter operations much safer.

Seeing how MOAB is guided so they could land it within ten feet or so of the target I’m guessing it’s going to do a lot more than a bigger weapon landing somewhere in the vicinity.

If accuracy is so important a guided weapon could have been used instead, or considering the Russian bomb is carried by a strategic bomber able to carry up to 40,000kgs of bombs several guided weapons could be used.

Of course the purpose of using the worlds largest conventional bomb would more likely be for use against area targets rather than point targets. As such I would expect it to be accurate enough… a large degree of accuracy coming from the platform that delivers it… compare the precision of a Tu-160 converted and upgraded to deliver conventional weapons with the accuracy of a C-130 I can see why the US wanted guidance with their bomb.

Lighter weight and twice as effective as a MOAB (if the new weapon used under ideal conditions anyway)

Seeing how MOAB is guided so they could land it within ten feet or so of the target I’m guessing it’s going to do a lot more than a bigger weapon landing somewhere in the vicinity.

The facts are fairly simple:
– The Russian’s have a clear lead in FAE (as well as airborne guns)
– The Russian’s have produced a very nice weapon for use against tunnel complexes in a “dirty war”

Lighter weight and twice as effective as a MOAB (if the new weapon used under ideal conditions anyway)

People on this forum think when one makes the right assessment to criticize the U.S or
has somewhat expressed his rational view of Russia, then he or she is anti-U.S or pro-Russian. I always like to digest what Mr. GaryB brings up here on this forum,and I had always liked it.

Unfortunately for some here you are either with us or against us, and if you say the US has done something wrong well then Stalin or Hitler did it much worse blah blah blah.
Used to bother stating I am not anti American but rarely bother these days.

Funny thing is that there are plenty of issues I agree with many posters that are coloured as pro US. My views on private firearms ownership, the death penalty, are two.

But I don’t think the Sun shines out the US’s A$$ so I must be anti american… which also makes me anti semetic etc etc.

If you want to think that I can’t make you change your mind… I am not the american military afterall. :diablo:

I thank you for your kind words Egberto but promise you that there will be some things we disagree upon. 😀 (…If not perhaps are you a hot brunette that has been female from birth… 25-35 years old and currently single…) 😀

My post is no sarcasm, it is my fair and honest view of Mr. GaryB. People on this forum think when one makes the right assessment to criticize the U.S or
has somewhat expressed his rational view of Russia, then he or she is anti-U.S or pro-Russian. I always like to digest what Mr. GaryB brings up here on this forum,and I had always liked it. I am in the same camp with Mr.GaryB
Here on Keypublishing , freedom of opinion should prevail and must be respected. Shouldn’t there be pros and cons in debate.Contact the Greeks for an answer.

I always like the professionalism with which Mr. GaryB makes his analysis and debate on the forum. It is always dense,concentrated and knowledgeable .Keep it up please.

Thanks, your post was good for a laugh. Of course most here will think your post is sarcasm. 😉

U.S. develops 14-ton super bomb, bigger than Russian vacuum bomb

WASHINGTON, September 13 (RIA Novosti) – The U.S. has a 14-ton super bomb more destructive than the vacuum bomb just tested by Russia, a U.S. general said Wednesday.

The statement was made by retired Lt. General McInerney, chairman of the Iran Policy Committee, and former Assistant Vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force.

McInerney said the U.S. has “a new massive ordnance penetrator that’s 30,000 pounds, that really penetrates … Ahmadinejad has nothing in Iran that we can’t penetrate.”

He also said the new Russian bomb was not a “penetrator.”

I always like the professionalism with which Mr. GaryB makes his analysis and debate on the forum. It is always dense,concentrated and knowledgeable .Keep it up please.

For instance one could claim the Blackjack with it’s bays open is stock footage, the fuel air munition being pulled out the back could be stock footage (it’s not as though FOAB is the first such munition ever dropped by Russia), and the explosion was set up on the ground.

Yes, they certainly could have faked it… but why would they? The US could have faked the moon landings too of course. Maybe this war in Iraq and Afghanistan is fake as well. Maybe this website is fake. Hey lets not believe anything we ever read ever again…

I think the general should know the difference between a vacuum or thermobaric bomb and a conventional penetrator.

And the General should also learn to count. A penetration bomb has very thick very heavy very strong side walls and nose to penetrate the target before impact. The power of a bomb is generally determined by the amount of explosive it carries, not how much inert steel it is made of. The Russians already stated that their bomb is physically lighter than the US MOAB. The fact that they are using a FAE warhead rather than a normal HE warhead means it is roughly 4 times more powerful by weight than HE. It is not 4 times lighter than the MOAB or this new penetrator therefore it is pretty safe to assume it is more powerful with regard to explosive power.
This FAE bomb might not penetrate deep enough to destroy an underground base but it could still kill all those inside simply by suffocating them.

I think the general should know the difference between a vacuum or thermobaric bomb and a conventional penetrator. The Russians have penetrators too , but perhaps would develop a hyper penetrator soon.
They don’t need to, since real nukes would do the job.
By the way have they tested their penetrators to know its actual capability?

Childish heh! “It is like children who say my father is better than your father”. I mean both the U.S. and Russia.