Rapier FCS/Jernas SAM system

The B-2 was tracked by the Rapier’s IR channel

I cannot recall the year in which the Jernas demonstrated its ability to track the B-2, but remember that it was the year of the aircraft’s first appearance at Farnborough. This was only a flyover – it didn’t land – and the decision to track the bomber seems to have been taken by the crew who were demonstrating the system. (I heard details of the incident from one of the journalists involved.)

The bomber was detected and tracked using the thermal channel – radars on the equipment terrace at Farnborough were not allowed to radiate RF power.
The prominent publication of thermal images of the B-2 by the Flight Show Daily caused much official annoyance, and no further copies of the photo were distributed. – at least in the short term.

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

Dear Members,

The Tracked Rapier has been retired. Also, Australia is retiring all of its Rapier firing batteries for updated RBS-70s.

Finally, I interviewed one of the Rapier soldiers at the Falkland’s at AUSA in 1986. He stated that the radar tracking which cued the optical tracker was worthless at Port San Carlos. What they did was have a man when they spotted an incoming Argie aircraft actually manually slew the optical tracker to the correct bearing. As a result after the Falkland’s war they developed what look like a wooden pistol on a tripod. An observer when he spots an incoming aircraft aims the pistol at the aircraft and that action slews the optical tracker to the target. I can not remember the exact details but the Tracked Rapier had a unit which was attached to the observer’s helmet in the hatch which acted in the same way that today’s helmet sights do for dogfighting missiles.

Jack E. Hammond

Rapier is a short range point defence system and has to be judged as such, it is not an area defence system or high altitude system. Within it’s engagement envelope it is pretty effective and could certainly be used against MiG29’s or Su30’s, but it is certainly no wide area defence SAM.

Rapier is a semi-static system with very limitede range. Whatever the radar can see, the target basically has to overfly the launcher for a successful intercept. Missile is pretty slow. The whole system is a toy.

Crotale NG would be a much more serious system in that class (Western systems), since – given equal sensory performance – those missile fly fast and far enough to be of some use.

My point is that when you can stand there and see it buzzing around with your own eyes how much of an accomplishment is it that you can also see it through an optical system? At those ranges even a radar could see it. Means absolutely nothing.

I was taking the p!ss,:rolleyes: Rapier only has a range of a few miles anyway, so if Rapier can engage it, you can see it, unless its dark or bad weather of course, which is the reason the radar is on the system in the first place (plus of course it will give a few seconds extra warning in the case of a non stealthly aircraft in good weather).I don’t put anything on what BAe did at Farnbough in the late 1990’s with the B-2, as I stated in the first post the B-2 is most likely like the F-117 in that it has a stealth mode, when it does not want to be seen by the enemy, and a non stealth mode when it does want to be seen by its friends (like in the local area of an airfield its operating out of). In the case of the F-117, all of the comms and Nav Aid aerials are retractable, no doubt the B-2 has the same for some of its systems, ILS, TACAN and alike. As stated by others, it wouldn’t touch a stealthly aircraft if the stealthly aircraft is used correctly (i.e. medium altitude or higher).

Malaysia ordered 15 Jernas systems for roughly $312 million that includes training, spares, repairs and missiles.

MBDA claims its hit probability rate is in excess of 90%. Has it killed any aircraft in any recent combat?

What do you call recent? Killed some in 1982*. I don’t know if the Iranians used it successfully in 1980-88, & I don’t know of any wars since then in which it’s had anything to shoot at.

*Of course, it’s been modernised since then.

Not really, Rapier would not be able to realistically engage any target outside that distance anyway.

My point is that when you can stand there and see it buzzing around with your own eyes how much of an accomplishment is it that you can also see it through an optical system? At those ranges even a radar could see it. Means absolutely nothing.

It is a great system for low and some medium altitude targets, however it would be useless at stopping any aircraft that can drop weapons from 35-40,000ft in near any weather and kill any fixed target with sub 4 meter CEP.

Example-

Pick your PLAAF platform and LS-6

French aircraft and AASM

Anything carrying Enhanced Paveway or Paveway IV

Israeli Spice

Rutech ( what ever the KAB series is that uses GPS and Glonas assist )

In good weather Using LGBs with some of the new gen pods that can reach from 35k + ft depending on the conditions.

And maybe some others I missed.

If the enemy has already taken out large SAMs and fighter aircraft, the Rapier isn’t going to stop much and would most likely get plinked with the right kind of A2G radar and IR imaging.

“detected while flying in the pattern around the airfield” it takes a bit of the shine off it. :rolleyes:

Not really, Rapier would not be able to realistically engage any target outside that distance anyway.

Malaysia ordered 15 Jernas systems for roughly $312 million that includes training, spares, repairs and missiles.

MBDA claims its hit probability rate is in excess of 90%. Has it killed any aircraft in any recent combat?

The Australians deploy them so do you guys think they can down Indonesian and Malaysian Su-30’s.

Yep, very easy to detect with an optical system- all you have to do is look at it. Of course you need to know WHERE to look and WHEN and when the little * at the bottom says “detected while flying in the pattern around the airfield” it takes a bit of the shine off it. :rolleyes:

There is a story that a Rapier system managed to track an F-117 an and airshow, Farnborough IIRC, but I dont know the details.

B-2 actually, though the B-2 most likely was in its non steathy mode, like comms aerials deployed, which would have not made it very steathy. The non radar tracker is an imaging IR system, which can be very easily put on to the target by the Mark 1 eyeball (I’ve done it at on a RAF Regiment Rapier FSC display at an Airshow as a member of the joe public (show was Mildenhall 98)).

There is a story that a Rapier system managed to track an F-117 an and airshow, Farnborough IIRC, but I dont know the details.