Plane spotters taking the blame for Edinburgh airport closure

Absolutely!

That’s it – simple as can be

That’s it – simple as can be – doing nothing wrong and you don’t mind being seen, recognised or even challenged politely by a newbie Security or LBP:D

Long live genuine spotting:cool:

The EDI Airport Watch scheme has been running for a couple of years.
Many regulars locals wear their ID cards with pride.
Others are more discrete. Some spotters will just sit in their cars, others
will venture along the perimeter for photographs.
It’s no secret that the security/police take a note of our car registrations
when we park nearby. They know who we are.

Rest easy. It’s a two way process.
Our police officers are absolutely sound.

Nuff said,

Gerry

nJayM…………

This could turn into a long debate !!! I just feel the security services should not be encouraged to coral people and apparently control them. If a member of the public is in a public place carrying out a legal activity then “security” should have no interest in them.

All these schemes seem much more effective at controlling those who hardly need controlling than dealing with the supposed real threat.

Terrorists will do what they are going to do anyway. Coralling and cowing law abiding citizens into more and more submission is not going to help one iota. It may help the unemployment situation slightly.

Certainly agree about bringing back “viewing areas” but I won’t be holding my breath.

Anyway, “good luck”. Hope the scheme works for you.

Planemike

In theory you don’t but since some airport areas make the security nervous …

In theory you don’t but since some airport areas make the security nervous if spotters are close to perimeter fences which naturally they will be. Permits mean that the bona fide spotters can rest assured they will not be in conflict with any authority (unless they breach rules) and will not be blamed by anyone if some miscreants take anti social liberties.

Bring back recognised viewing spots with safety enhancements to appease the security services and everyone will be happy.

If you ain’t doing anything wrong ID cards/permits aren’t a problem and can be time saving.

Why do we need a permit to do something which is perfectly legal i.e. looking at and photographing aircraft?

Planemike

Thanks for clarifying

Hello NJayM…..
Gerry

Hi Gerry
I think a bona fide spotter or enthusiast should be able to apply to BAA or the local airport authority and receive a cover letter or ID card which coraborates their domicile status, etc and in return the spotter/enthusiast must abide by the game rules.
As everyone says spotters can be an unpaid value added bonus as extra pairs of eyes with no malice intended.
I hope the overblown rubbish stops as it seems exactly as you say.
Some of us love aircraft since being little and that love makes us want to cherish them and the services they are surrounded by (critical of the rubbish though) and would not wish anything untoward happening to them.
Thanks for clarifying.
Jay:)

Hello NJayM

Yes, it was known soon after that there was a VIP around EDI at the time of the
alert. We are drawing our own conclusions as to why the airport was
closed down for a period of time. ….
As you can see by the response, the Police were ‘reactive’ to an Airport
Security response.

Also, Ingliston Car park is not public ground, it is owned by RHS.
Prevously owned by Spooks of the flea market.
Of course, they cannot prevent anyone traversing by foot unless
there is a cause or justification to prevent access, by statute.
(Scots Law on access to land, as you know)
The car park has had many obstacles and gates added in the last few years
to prevent ‘travellers’ from setting up ‘home’ there too. And vandalism.

The police have turned photographers away from Ingliston (‘B” link) in the
past when it suits them. Whenever the Terrorist Level hits a high point,
security checks are pretty common down there.
I know what it’s like.
And yet, in the last week, there hasn’t been a glance.

I think the situation was blown out of all proportion by the press
and a jumpy Airport Security.
It’s the passengers that got the raw deal on this case, not the
lame photographer.

Case closed I reckon.

Gerry

The apology was to you not to any title you may carry

The apology was to you not to any title you may carry/carried.;)

I stand corrected about the second point you make. Apologies to anyone who takes offence about my tongue in cheek quipe.

But did any one notice that the head of state for India was due in to Edinburgh on that day

Hi Kevinm
You seem to be the only one who knew about the above. Any reference URL available?
GA has taken me to task about my tongue in cheek additional comment about the same sentence.

You don’t have to apologise to me, I’m just a humble punter these days.

You’re perfectly entitled to your opinions, however reprehensible others may find them, but this isn’t the appropriate place to express those particular opinions seeing as it’s a Commercial Aviation forum.

[QUOTE=Grey Area;1769449]Oh yes, that little rant was totally relevant to the subject of Commercial Aviation…… not. :rolleyes:[QUOTE]

Apologies GA 😉

…..When I see the country the head of state represents, tidy up its domestic act and develop its own society and infrastructure before taking over international businesses (UK included):mad: and preaching to the world about business techniques then a red carpet can be provided……

Oh yes, that little rant was totally relevant to the subject of Commercial Aviation…… not. :rolleyes:

‘Security theatre’, ie, the importance to the authorities of being seen to be doing something, seems to have a higher priority than common sense these days and spotters are increasingly becoming seen by security managers as a soft target for a ‘quick win’ – even at previously spotter-friendly airports like Manchester – rather than as extra pairs of ears and eyes (equipped with mobile phones) dotted around the airport perimeter.

Isn’t Ingliston public space unless new restrictions have been added ?

Isn’t Ingliston public space unless new restrictions have been added ?

Many airports and their surrounding neighbourhood weren’t planned during a terrorist inflicted world.

The Royal Highland Show ground at Ingliston and many of the businesses around permit public visibility of many areas of the airport and it would be difficult to prevent ‘joe public’ from being there.

It is what ‘joe public’ does when they are there that matters or does not matter. You probably were doing nothing to cause anyone least of all Lothian and Borders Police any anxiety.:cool: Your vehicle plate would identify you as well. LBP are a good force and certainly try to know their friends from their foes.

Two LHR runways have a motorway the hard shoulder on which any vehicle with a rocket launcher wielding terrorist maniac could take anything out on take off or landing. I guess they could build a ‘pseudo’ tunnel over that stretch of M25 (including fake or real grass roof and surrounds) and its slip roads but cost and environmentalists (Yuk) prohibit:mad:

Take 6/24 at EDI, and consider the union of two motorways and the footbridge over them and the A8, well need I say more. Improved runway to avoid severe crosswinds on 12/30 now hardly used but 6/24 at Ratho end is vulnerable – YES.

I often stand on the footbridge at Ratho station and anyone checking on me would not find my behaviour abnormal apart from when my cousin flys in as a First Officer previously with Norwegian now with SAS I try to wave a huge bright yellow tee shirt if the taxi and turn is the usual for 6/24.

I went to Ingliston on the way home, two police cars went past but nothing was said.

[QUOTE=R-T-C Tim;1769086]
QUOTE]
Not if a dirty nuke was tagged to the end cars of a freight train that finally marshalled in a city centre rail yard. There would be no alert to sound just a mini armagedon.

As do holes in perimeter fences provide the opportunity to try to test security along with pics of various things other than aircraft (e.g. security, and service vehicles, fuel trucks, etc)

Complacency and greed is what permitted 9/11 to happen without any warning and terrorists stay ahead of the game as their sick minds are hell bent on shortening the survival of all the people of the democratic world or the entire world itself.

Pics of aircraft civil and military and airport movements can reveal much to unsavoury characters with very serious anti social motives.

Perhaps photographs of the baggage handling facilities would be possibly of interest for anyone planning a Lockbie style bombing, but all of the recent airplane targetting terror attacks have either involved suicide bombings carrying explosives on the person, or via the postal service, neither of which could particularly be aided by photographs of aircraft.

Likewise pics of trains and railways (including stations, marshalling yards, etc) can be a haven for terrorist plots. e.g. in the USA freight trains are so very long (100-200 cars) that one can read a chapter of a novel while waiting their movement across a level crossing. I brought this up as the rear cars being a potential terrorist vehicle for routes in to city marshalling yards e.g. of getting a ‘dirty’ nuke or similar un noticed in to a city or metropolis.

Never heard of this idea before, I can’t see how putting a weapon on a railroad train would be any easier than driving it into a city, particularly since American railroad yards are often quite away from city centres and the particular routes of trains can vary heavily. In the event of an alert being sounded, it would be very easy to stop all of the trains entering an urban area (even if it would take weeks to search them all) than trying to stop all vehicle traffic. Not sure exactly what photographs of the trains would serve to prove either.

I like it – a hole for a creep to crawl through

But did any one notice that the head of state for India was due in to Edinburgh on that day

I like it – a hole for a creep to crawl through.:D
When I see the country the head of state represents, tidy up its domestic act and develop its own society and infrastructure before taking over international businesses (UK included):mad: and preaching to the world about business techniques then a red carpet can be provided. Until then maybe a hole it must be as an exit from the airport.:rolleyes:

Not so sure I’d be so blase about what trespassing pic hunters ….

Not so sure I’d be so blase about what unauthorised trespassing pic hunters (purporting to be spotters) can’t do in the concious/unconcious furtherance of terrorism whether it be aircraft, trains or ships/boats.

I suggested in my earlier post on this same thread that bona fide spotters be issued with an ID card renewable every year which confirms their domicile status and access rights. Also the availability of approved spotter locations be considered.

Pics of aircraft civil and military and airport movements can reveal much to unsavoury characters with very serious anti social motives.

Likewise pics of trains and railways (including stations, marshalling yards, etc) can be a haven for terrorist plots. e.g. in the USA freight trains are so very long (100-200 cars) that one can read a chapter of a novel while waiting their movement across a level crossing. I brought this up as the rear cars being a potential terrorist vehicle for routes in to city marshalling yards e.g. of getting a ‘dirty’ nuke or similar un noticed in to a city or metropolis.

Let’s not be blase as what is an innocent ‘hole’ in a perimeter fence can be a in provding opportunity for bad people to plan further badness.

Can bona fide pic hunters play the game and trouble makers and terrorists deserve being ‘bunged’ up in Jail? I think there would be many on this forum that would join me in throwing away the key as well. Terrorism has spolit it for genuine lovers of aircraft – in flight and on the ground. I lament the long lost many days of flying jump seat or visits to the cockpit while in flight.

As a rail photographer most of the time, this comes as no surprise, most railway companies operate with an unbelievable vitriol against photographers and use any excuse to stop people photographing trains, endlessly reeling out the “security risk” and “terrorism” excuses, even though none of those involved in recent terror attacks in the UK or overseas have ever been found to have a computer full of photos of planes or trains (and quite what a shot of and HST or an A300 would help them do in planning a suicide bombing I have yet to have explained to me…?)